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Old 11-05-2012, 10:05 PM   #1
ganstaman
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Why didn't I win this endgame?

I was recently playing a 5+2 game online and felt like I messed up the endgame. It's upsetting because I just felt so lost and wasn't sure what I should have been looking for. Anyone wanna help?

For reference, here's the game on chess.com: http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=390793063

And here's the pgn:
Code:
[White "WZWdragon"]
[Black "hamstergang"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Be7 6. Nf3 Bg4 7. Be2 O-O 8. O-O dxc4 9. Bxc4 Nc6 10. d5 Na5 
11. b3 Nd7 12. Bb2 Nb6 13. Qd3 Bxf3 14. gxf3 Naxc4 15. bxc4 c6 16. Rad1 cxd5 17. Nxd5 Nxd5 18. cxd5 Bf6 19. Qb3 Bxb2 20. Qxb2 b6 
21. Rfe1 Qg5+ 22. Kh1 Qf4 23. Re3 Rad8 24. Rd4 Qf6 25. Qd2 Rd6 26. Kg2 Rfd8 27. Red3 Qh6 28. f4 Kf8 29. Qb4 Kg8 30. Qd2 Kf8 
31. Qe3 Qf6 32. Qe5 Qe7 33. Kf3 f6 34. Qxe7+ Kxe7 35. h4 a5 36. a4 Kf7 37. Kg4 g6 38. f3 h5+ 39. Kg3 Kg7 40. Kf2 Kh6 
41. Kg3 g5 42. fxg5+ fxg5 43. hxg5+ Kxg5 44. f4+ Kf5 45. Kf3 h4 46. Rd2 Rg8 47. Rg2 Rxg2 48. Kxg2 Kg4 49. f5+ Kxf5 50. Rxh4 Rxd5 
51. Rh6 Rd4 52. Rxb6 Rxa4 53. Kf3 Ra3+ 54. Ke2 Ke5 55. Kd2 a4 56. Kc2 Kd5 57. Rb5+ Kc4 58. Rb8 Ra2+ 59. Kb1 Rh2 60. Ka1 a3 
61. Rc8+ Kb5 62. Rb8+ Kc6 63. Rb3 Rh1+ 64. Ka2 Rh2+ 65. Kxa3 Rh4 66. Rc3+ Kd5 67. Kb3 Rd4 68. Rh3 Kc6 69. Rh5 Rd5 70. Rh4 Kd6 
71. Kc4 Rc5+ 1/2-1/2
I (with the computer to support me) think I could have had a small advantage with 18...Bd6, and I regretted not playing that as soon as I played 18...Bf6 instead. He didn't punish correctly, at least. Unless anyone disagrees?

With all that out of the way, here's where I really want to focus from, after 21. Rfe1:


I feel like I, black, should be doing well here. The exposed white king and weak f-pawns look like targets for my queen. With the rooks and queens on board, I didn't think the passed yet isolated d-pawn would make it to promotion. And if all went well, I thought the 2 to 1 pawn advantage on the queenside would be nice for me.

But, I don't know quite how to make the win happen, and as shown in the game I was definitely confused. It's not that I ever expected to lose, but I thought I had a shot at winning.

One more position, after 51. Rh6:


It's a tablebase draw after 51...Rd4 52. Rxb6 as played, but 51...Rd2+ 52. Kf3 Rb2 ? Can I win that?
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:27 AM   #2
Montrealcorp
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

Spoiler:
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:49 PM   #3
g-bebe
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

I think Rd2+ Kf3 Rb2 is winning for black, but that's just me.
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:27 PM   #4
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

It seems to me you dropped the ball after around move 35. Your plan of breaking on the Kingside didn't accomplish much. You need to activate your rooks to penetrate White's posiiton. 35...f5 looks very strong, following up with Rc8, since White can't easily double on the e-file anymore. Or if you want to advance on the Q-side, 35...b5 looks better, to keep more flexibility in the pawn structure.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:23 PM   #5
ganstaman
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

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Originally Posted by Montrealcorp View Post
for after rb2 seem simply K3e is enough to draw, white king is close enough to black pawn imo
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I think Rd2+ Kf3 Rb2 is winning for black, but that's just me.
Annnnnnnnnnnd fight! No, really, the position looks so simple but I don't know how to properly evaluate it, and the computer is fairly useless here.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:54 PM   #6
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

I think the ending from the diagram is almost positively drawn but slightly better for white. White's weaknesses just don't mean much since you need to keep too much material invested in stopping his pawn. With so many heavies on the board your king isn't going to get meaningfully involved so you'll likely just end up mutually stalemated on the d pawn.

In my experience dynamics play a much more important role in creating winning chances in equal material rook endgames. For instance better king position, active vs passive rook, advanced passers, etc. I think this position is a great example of that as every single static advantage is in your favor, but every single dynamic advantage is in your opponent's.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:06 AM   #7
Montrealcorp
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

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Originally Posted by ganstaman View Post
Annnnnnnnnnnd fight! No, really, the position looks so simple but I don't know how to properly evaluate it, and the computer is fairly useless here.
well, imo black cant win the white a-pawn wiht losing is b-pawn, so easy draw.

white king cant be cut off ,etc..

i really dont see how black can win.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:17 AM   #8
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

i think black has excellent practical winning chances after 52. ...Rb2 because Rb4 is already a threat and i don't see much else than defending the a-pawn passively with Rh1-a1. I guess theoretically it's still a draw though, would have to analyze some more to be sure.

For the initial position i tend to agree with DIR here, black probably has to block the pawn with Qd6 after which white can just play Qe5, take the queens off (thereby eliminating the danger to his king), go Re7 and how is black ever to make progress then?
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:13 AM   #9
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

Not to sound like a broken record, but I agree with DiR. I've aimed for many endgames like this as black, thinking that because all of the positional factors are in black's favor (king safety, pawn structure, and 2v1 on the queenside) that black should be winning. But white's activity makes it nearly impossible to realize those advantages. The d-pawn will tie black's pieces down I think it'll be really tough for black to ever get active and make a draw. I've had to bang my head against a wall several times in positions just like this one before I finally got a better feel for them.
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:37 PM   #10
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

51...Rd2+ & 52...Rb2 seems winning to me - black's threat is to walk his king to c5 and play Rxa4. White's king can't help so he has to try Rh1-a1 but then he's so passive. The tempos give black time to drive white's king to the second rank, and we end up with something like WRa1, Kc2 versus BKc4, Rb3. This should be winning but some calculation is required.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:17 PM   #11
ganstaman
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

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Originally Posted by Do it Right View Post
I think this position is a great example of that as every single static advantage is in your favor, but every single dynamic advantage is in your opponent's.
Yeah, chess is too hard.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:18 AM   #12
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Re: Why didn't I win this endgame?

Active pieces matter
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