Odd number = RT is white; Even number = RT is black;

I'm happy just using my 'normal' repertoire here, so ideally I want to get into a Blackmar-Diemer gambit & try to make it an interesting game if nothing else ... but I'll have to see if RT is obliging with these plans ...

lol bdg

ohno

I used to play the Gruenfeld and now mostly play the Nimzo-Indian, but I'll make up my mind next move

OK, so here's where things get strange.
I wonder if RT looked at my games I posted from the Australian Open ... because there were a few games in there which may end up like this one.
I'm going to play 2.f3 ... with the idea of still trying to get into a BDG ... but also leaving the possibility of transposing into other lines I am happy with where f3 is a useful move.
Ordinarily if you play a move like 2.f3, the obvious counter would be to play 2...e5 (given that there is no knight on f3 to help cover e5), however with the black knight already on f6, its far less likely for black to do that ... anyway, a lot will depend on what RT plays next ... if he plays 2...d5, then its going to be 3.e4! & we are BDG bound!!

BDG is exciting chess. All the best to White in this game!

lol bdg +2

BDG in correspondence chess? Big balls.

oops, I should have remembered this from the Australian Open thread. I think ...d5 is the only principled move. I'm not sure what I "normally" do against the BDG, have tried a couple of things with mixed results. I'm probably going to go into smilingbill's suggested line after 3. e4 e5!?, it looked reasonable, Hiphop didn't have anything in particular in mind about it, and the computer suggested something weird and unconvincing imo (Bb5+ vacating the f1 square, although I'll have to figure out all the moves leading up to it). And I'd rather not defend the BDG in a correspondence game against someone who plays it all the time.

downside is White may be able to/may have to force a quick draw, I'm not thrilled with the idea of a quick draw but I don't think he will be either and I don't see any shame in bluffing him into playing an inferior move to avoid drawing early with White.

OK, so looks like we might have a BDG after all ...
The plan is not 3.e4 & after the expected 3...dxe4 to play 4.Nc3. The opening has effectively transposed into a BDG, which would normally come about from 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3
One advantage that this move order has is that black sometimes falls into a trap by playing 4...e5 in the above line, where the transposition confuses them & they know about the line 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 e5, which is a decent option for black, though there's a lot to it for both sides.
If black plays 4...e5, after 5.dxe5, the 'natural' follow-up of 5...Qxd1+ 6.Kxd1 Nfd7 loses two pawns to 7.Nd5 (threatening c7) Kd8 8.Bg5+ f6 9.exf6 gxf6 10.Nxf6 (threatening Nd5) Be7 11.Ne4 Bxg5 12.Nxg5, which leaves white two clear pawns up. I've had this exact position on ICC in blitz games at least 10 times (probably more like 20 times). Anyway ... its there as a possibility.
A lot of what happens from here depends on how RT chooses to defend, but I would be expecting 3...dxe4 4.Nc3 exf3 5.Nxf3 & then the opening branches off, with the main choices being e6, g6 & c6, although there are other moves that are playable.

I know you guys are really strong players and all, but can all really strong players just rattle off line after line of a million different openings? I don't think I could learn all that stuff in 10 more years of study, even if I specialized in openings or something.

I don't think it's really too hard. As you play over more games and study the openings some, it just sort of happens. Like anything else in life, repetition forces things onto your memory. And if you actually try to memorize some, it's even easier.

I'm not even a strong player, and I know openings fairly wide and deep in parts. It probably wasn't the best way for me to attempt to learn the game, but it does have the advantage that it would be very difficult for anyone to trick me by transpositions since I'll know my basica way around most openings.

On another note, everyone's seen some of my openings in the past 2 Malkovich games, and yet I have never and likely will never try out the BDG. In this position, I would play 3...e6 since I play the French and I don't see how the move f3 helps white in the French.

It seems unlikely you'd ever have to defend the BDG against someone who DOESN'T play it all the time. Tough opening to play "accidentally" imo.

I think what Ganstaman said is correct. For example with hiphop did that I had to read it 3 times to follow the line. Put me in an opening I know and play quite often and I follow much easier.

The only time I ever play f3 is 4.f3 against the Nimzo to avoid the theory so could be interesting to learn something new here!

ooh, "my" variation coming up Rechecked it with Houdini, still looks very OK for Black. Maybe the critical line is 3.-e5 4.dxe5 Nxe4 5.Bb5+ (5.Ne2 Nc5 looks comfortable enough for Black and 5.fxe4 Qh4+ 6.Kd2 Qh6+ is a draw, tho B can bait White to play for more with 6.-Qf4+ which is messy after 7.Kc3) c6 6.fxe4 cxb5 7.exd5 Qh4+ 8.Kf1 Bc5, I went on for a few moves with Houdini and the eval was quite close to 0.00.
Against the BDG I have been using the recipe from this article http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_bi..._dmr_gmbt.html and it has served me very well for a few years now

ok, now I get the computer's idea. 3...e5 4. de Nxe4 5. Bb5+!? c6 6. fe Qh4+ 7. Kf1 and I have to win the piece back on b5, which isn't as nice as putting more pieces or pawns in the centre. Still deserves to be tried imo, I will have the bishop pair and his displaced king in return for whatever goes wrong in the centre. Maybe even 6...Qh4+ isn't necessary and is going to lose more time than it gains. I kind of like the idea of 6...Qa5+ 7. Nc3 Bb4 8. Be2 d4 9. Qxd4 0-0 but it doesn't appear to work, he can play Bd2 and Qe3 and escape

it's also possible 7...Bc5 or something works (in the main line), but I don't see it after say 8. Qe2 Bg4 9. Nf3

OK, I must admit that in spite of having played this opening for years (yes, I'm one of the crazies who plays the BDG at pretty much any opportunity, in any form of the game - online, blitz, G/60, G/90+30' inc, FIDE rated comps, etc & I have about 10 or so books on the opening) I have yet to come across this in a tournament game!
The fact that he's played this move gives me a suspicion that he's looked at the thread on my Australian Open games & may have seen the suggestion in the thread that 3...e5 was a 'forced draw' in the position, with the line of 4.dxe5 Nxe4 5.fxe4 Qh4+ 6.Kd2 Qf4+ 7.Ke1 Qh4+ & draw by repetition. I put it through Fritz at the time & it liked 5.Bb5+ before playing fxe4, so that Qh4+ could be answered with Kf1 (therefore avoiding the perpetual). Guess I actually have to look at it in a bit of detail now ...
I suppose the first thing to do is have a look at candidate moves (sounds very Kotov-like I guess) ... and the ones that come to mind immediately are dxe5, Nc3, exd5 & Bg5 ... although moves like Ne2, Be3 & Bd3 are also in the back of my mind as outside possibilities.
My first thought is 4.dxe5 (ironic that I am the one taking material when I was the one who offered the gambit pawn with e4). This is also a fairly forcing line, as black has little alternative but to move the knight ... and apart from the Nxe4 line, only Nfd7 looks like a feasable alternative. Having said that, its not a line I'm too concerned about as I think simply Qxd5 afterwards is clearly winning for white. So its back to 4...Nxe4. The immediate recapture with 5.fxe4 scares me, as not only does black have the perpetual, but there might be something better & the thoguht of having my king blocking my other pieces in on d2, or going for a stroll around the board via c3, are fairly unappealing to me. The line with 5.Bb5+ c6 (presumably, otherwise I either swap pieces & recapture on e4 after N or Bd7 & have f1 available for my king, which looks like a clear piece up) 6.fxe4 Qh4+ 7.Kf1 looks like the critical line. It looks like black has nothing better than cxb5 here (no checks; Bg4 runs into Be2; Qxe4 has Bd3 Qxe5 Qe2 & a piece should be worth more than 2 pawns in that position) ... so how should the position be assessed, particularly with the obvious capture on d5 for white (queen or pawn,though queen is my initial thought). The only dilemma white has here is the lack of development & there doesn't seem to be any obvious way to exploit it, as the bishops have no obvious squares to threaten anything (Bb4, threatening Qe1 is easily stopped by c3) & 'simple development' with Nc6 or something like that can also be answered with 'simple development' Nf3 & white is fine.
All-in-all I think that makes dxe5 look fine for white & looks like a good first choice ... but I don't want to run into the 'blind spot' that Cadaz (I think) mentioned in the last Malkovich game of ignoring a better move.
4.Nc3 looks reasonable, obviously looking for dxe4 5.dxe5 Qxd1+ & the trap mentioned in my previous note ... however I suspect RT won't go down that path.
4...exd4 looks like the obvious response for black, when 5.Qxd4 Nc6 6.Bb5 looks promising, but I'm not sure that the position after 6...dxe4 7.Qxd8+ Kxd8 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Nxe4 Nxe4 10.fxe4 is actually good for me as my e-pawn is fairly easy to attack & difficult to defend, while the weak c-pawns for black take much longer to attack & can be defended much easier (the value of pawns not being too far advanced).
5.e5 here looks very much like a line of the Alekhine's Defense (normally 1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.e5 (obviously 3.d4 would be much better!) d4 4.exf6 dxc3) which is fine for black. In this case, the difference is black has a pawn on d5 & white has a pawn on f3, which help black's cause much more than white's, so I think that line is out of the question.
Ultimately, I think that makes 4.Nc3 a less than ideal choice.
4.exd5 leaves black with plenty of options & with the centre open, it makes the pawn on f3 look a little silly. For example, 4...Qxd5 5.Nc3 Qxd4 6.Qxd4 exd4 7.Nb5 Na6 8.Nxd4 & I don't mind black's position as it is kind of awkward to develop my kingside & black has some obvious squares for his pieces, such as Nc5, Bd6, 0-0, Be6 or f5, etc. Obviously this is only one possibility, but I think in any case black is comfortable in the positions that arise as a result, so its another not-so-good option.
4.Bg5 looks like it has some potential, particularly in a line like 4...exd4 5.e5 h6 6.Bh4 g5 7.exf6 gxh4 8.Qxd4 (5...Qe7 6.Qxd4 looks good for white also), however black can also play 4...dxe4 & 5.dxe5 is no longer as effective after 5...Qxd1+ 6.Kxd1 Nfd7 & I like black's position. Of course with the knight being pinned, I can now play 5.fxe4, however after 5...Qxd4 I think black has a comfortable position, even with the 'dodgy pawns' after 6.Qxd4 exd5 7.Bxf6 gxf6 as my e-pawn is once again a potential liability & black has an extra pawn, with little, if anything for white to claim as compensation.
Again, another move to eliminate ... so 4.dxe5 it is!
Obviously for psychological reasons (and because I've analysed it to some extent here already) I plan to follow up 4...Nxe4 (the move I'm expecting) with 5.Bb5+ & a very short spoiler section, which will hopefully add to the 'OMG, he's seen it already ... I must be busted' thoughts I like to plant in my opponent's heads from time-to-time ... and because I have rambled so much here already ... :P
Obviously if RT plays something else, then expect another tl;dr spoiler section!

smilingbill, can't believe you posted that article. I was just looking for it the other day and couldn't find it again. That line is exactly what I play against the BDG and that article is why. I'm a caro-kann player and the BDG has been played a few times against me (1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. f3) and already having played c6 makes playing white very difficult. Silman is right, that defense is really tough.

You could do it against me. I play e4 as white but against the caro-kann I have often transposed into the BDG even though I know very little theory

I hope that long spoiler is a bluff. In any case, I have crossed the Rubicon now

Not unexpected ... so ...

I always suck against the BDG because I never spent the time to learn anything decent and would always try to make up a line OTB. Especially bad in blitz. So thank you, bill! Easiest game ever.

[Event "ICC"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2011.02.02"]
[White "freesprit"]
[Black "Oops"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "1948"]
[BlackElo "1819"]
[ECO "D00"]
[Opening "Blackmar gambit"]
[TimeControl "300+0"]

1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. f3 Nf6 4. Nc3 exf3 5. Nxf3 c6
6. Bc4 Bf5 7. Ne5 e6 8. O-O Bg6 9. Be3 Nbd7 10. Qf3 Qc7
11. Bf4 Bd6 12. Nxg6 hxg6 13. Bxd6 Qxd6 14. g3 Qxd4+ 15. Kg2 Qxc4
16. Rad1 O-O-O 17. b3 Qg4 18. Qf2 Qh3+ 19. Kg1 Ng4 20. Qe2 Nxh2
21. Rxf7 Ng4 22. Qg2 Qxg2+ 23. Kxg2 Ne3+ 24. Kf2 Nxd1+ 25. Nxd1 Ne5
26. Rxg7 Rxd1
0-1

Best part about that line is it's extremely natural, not really any odd memorization required. Once you get in ...c6 and ...Bg6 the line pretty much plays itself.