Here's the line/position in question.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 Be7



Do any of y'all play 5.Bf4 in the position? Reason I ask is I've routinely played 5.Bg5, like most people, for as long as I can remember. My results against the QGD have been mediocre at best and I'm looking for a way to improve.

Noir_Desir, you're a QGD guy as black, right? Any advice? The QGD frustrates me to play against because it seems like if white isn't 100% accurate in his lines, black gets immediate equality. Maybe I just need to study more

Well, play the exchange...

The Lasker (5. Bg5 0-0 6. e3 h6 7. Bh4 Ne4) is in my opinion impossible to get an advantage against. Or even an interesting position, save those h4 and g4 tries which were discussed recently, but i don't really believe that either. If white tries for something interesting, it might be even black who has more of the fun, see the final game from the Anand-Topalov Wch for an example of what i'm talking about.

The Tartakower (7. ...b6) is more interesting but even there i don't see any line that gives white hope of a theoretical advantage. But if you handle the pawn-structures well, you can outplay your opponent there from either side. White's best bet is probably the old main line with 8. Be2 Bb7 9. Bxf6 Bxf6 10. cxd5 exd5 11. b4 c6 12. 0-0. There's a very sharp line with 12. ...a5!? 13. b5, if this is OK then white has nothing, if black has to play 12. ...Re8 then white can hope for a small pull.

The difficulties of 5. Bg5 explain the current popularity of 5. Bf4 or the Catalan.

5. Bf4 0-0 6. e3 Nbd7 is supposed to be very solid for black. The reason i don't particularly like it is 7. c5 c6 8. h3! (saves a tempo because black will have to play Ba6 eventually anyway) b6 9. b4 a5 10. a3 Ba6 11. Bxa6 Rxa6 12. b5! cxb5 13. c6. And if white doesn't go in for this, it's still mainly a game for two results, where black is extremly likely to get equality and extremly unlikely to get more than that.

That said, the old main line with 6 ...c5 is in my opinion fine for black, even more so below master level. There are some very sharp lines with some combination of dxc5, a3 and 0-0-0 for white but no one plays them without deep preparation and they're supposed to lead to forced draws anyway. Most exchange on c5 and d5, when taking back with the knight is very slightly better for white but close to a draw, and taking back with the pawn is supposed to be worse for black but i'm not convinced that an IQP position with the bishop on f4 is that great for white. This would be my line if i was aiming for a win with black against 5. Bf4.

So to conclude, i can't help you. I have the same problems with white and am very happy with it as black. With white, i go for exchange lines but while the exchange lines with Bg5, Ne2, 0-0 and f3 are supposed to be better for white, in my experience they can backfire pretty badly if white isn't 100% accurate.

I feel like I owe you money for your reply, that was fantastic. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

Much of what you described is exactly what I'm thinking. You know much more theory than I do, but basically I've gotten to the same point of feeling like I'm banging my head against a wall trying to get an advantage.

I started going through Chessbase last night looking for 5.Bg5 alternatives (which prompted this thread) and was surprised to find how popular 5.Bf4 has become. I thought it was an older line because I'd seen Capablanca and those guys play it, but it has been played quite a bit in 2011 and 2012 by all the big names. Like you said, they must be looking for alternatives to 5.Bg5.

A normal QGD game for me goes like this: equality out of the opening, push too hard to try and create something that isn't there in the middlegame, and then lose because of the weaknesses I've made trying to force an attack of some kind. It's really getting frustrating. Like you said, seemingly EVERYTHING gives black equality against 5.Bg5. Just yesterday I lost a game to a lower rated player because he got instant equality out of the opening and as usual, I pushed too hard and lost.

I think I might give Bf4 a shot for a while, if for no other reason than to mix up the play and get some new positions. Really do appreciate the help, and if you come across some magic QGD antidote please let me know Haha.