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Position from a recently played game Position from a recently played game

07-25-2009 , 02:47 PM


Black is to move. Black is up two pawns (currently anyway) but White is starting to get some semingly dangerous pressure going.

This may be a completely non-exciting, standard position, I'm not sure.

Thoughts?
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-25-2009 , 03:19 PM
White seems fine. You have to deal with the mate threat, the Qxf5 Rf6+ threat, and not hang e7, which seems like some kind of contortion like Qc7/Kg8/Rf7/Kf8, at which point you're only up 1 pawn and in no position to take any active plan to use the extra pawn. If black can find some better way to organize pieces in the first few moves, maybe there's a chance.
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07-25-2009 , 04:04 PM
I agree, White should be at least equal and probably winning.

Qc7 or Kg8 look like the only real options (Qb5 Qh5+ wins at least the e-pawn), so you'll lose back the f-pawn and still be under massive pressure
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-25-2009 , 05:57 PM
1...Kg8 loses immediately to Qg3+.

My first thought was 1...Rg8 but 2.Qxf5 is a double threat with Qxh7+ or Rxf6+.

Ok so 1...Qc7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Qxf5 and now ...Qc5+ 4.Qxc5 dxc5 5.Rxe7 Rxe7 6.Rxe7 Rf7 should be about equal.

Can White improve on this? I don't think Black has anything better. White has a lot for the pawns.
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-25-2009 , 06:09 PM
White's still pressing after Re6 since it's not simple to untangle. I'm not sure what's going on.

Last edited by TomCowley; 07-25-2009 at 06:19 PM.
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-25-2009 , 06:15 PM
Looking at 1...Qc7 2.R1e3 or 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.R1e3
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-25-2009 , 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley
White's still pressing after Re6 since it's not simple to untangle. I'm not sure what's going on.
Black can probably pitch the f-pawn to get his rook active and still be OK. Pawn on h6 is potentially weak.

White must have better, black is in a huge bind in the starting position ... no need to trade off 4 major pieces...
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-25-2009 , 07:47 PM
Is Kg6 a bad move? Followed by Rg8?
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-25-2009 , 07:56 PM
Yeah, Qg3+ Kh5/6 (Kf7 Qg7 mate) Kf2 and Rh1 mate is unstoppable
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-25-2009 , 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley
Yeah, Qg3+ Kh5/6 (Kf7 Qg7 mate) Kf2 and Rh1 mate is unstoppable
Yipes!!
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-30-2009 , 01:30 AM
Im semi-drunk and might miss something pretty basic, but Rg8 seems standard and OK for black. Then again: feed it to Rybka and it will tell you for sure.
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-30-2009 , 05:11 AM
then qxf5 with the double threat of Qh7 and Rf6 should be winning
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-30-2009 , 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundTower
then qxf5 with the double threat of Qh7 and Rf6 should be winning

Oops right. Followed my own advice and fed it to Rybka. White is winning. Best defense according to the monster is 1...Ke8 2. Qg3 Qc7 3.Kh1 followed by the Queen penetration 4.Qg7 and Qxh7 and touchdown with the h-pawn. Evaluation: +4.50, so little room for doubt.
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-30-2009 , 09:28 PM
Kg6 falls to M4
Kg8 falls to M2
f4 falls to M3
Rd8 falls to M8
Rc8 falls to M9
Rb8 falls to M8
Ra8 falls to M8
moving the a or b file pawn loses the Q by force

which leaves moving the Q, Rh8 or Rg8 as the only viable options.

Strategically, we want to untie ourselves so moving the queen seems best but it will require very accurate play to stave off white's attack and I would expect a majority of players to lose OTB as black against any kind of decent opponent
Position from a recently played game Quote
07-31-2009 , 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_poker
Kg6 falls to M4
Kg8 falls to M2
f4 falls to M3
Rd8 falls to M8
Rc8 falls to M9
Rb8 falls to M8
Ra8 falls to M8
moving the a or b file pawn loses the Q by force

which leaves moving the Q, Rh8 or Rg8 as the only viable options.

Strategically, we want to untie ourselves so moving the queen seems best but it will require very accurate play to stave off white's attack and I would expect a majority of players to lose OTB as black against any kind of decent opponent
1...Qc7 (best) should be the primary candidate move so as to answer Qxf5 with ...Qc5+. The question is: Does White have (objectively) any better than the resulting rook ending TimM mentioned?
Position from a recently played game Quote
08-02-2009 , 11:05 PM
Is 1... Qxe6 a bad idea? You can get two rooks for a queen and a pawn.
Position from a recently played game Quote
08-02-2009 , 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by garcia1000
Is 1... Qxe6 a bad idea? You can get two rooks for a queen and a pawn.
Doesn't work, white plays 2.Qh5+ and then you don't get the second rook.
Position from a recently played game Quote
08-02-2009 , 11:34 PM
Oh, yeah. This probably means no more chess tournament for me until I get better
Position from a recently played game Quote
08-03-2009 , 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UATrewqaz


Black is to move. Black is up two pawns (currently anyway) but White is starting to get some semingly dangerous pressure going.

This may be a completely non-exciting, standard position, I'm not sure.

Thoughts?
This position sucks for black and black is the only one in actual immediate danger of losing this regardless of the material deficit the activity of white's pieces , inactivity of black's pieces, and horrible placement of black's king combined with open lines leading right to him.

There are only two lines off the top of my head even worth considering, if we play Rg8 to combat a Qh5+ with Rg6, white captures Qxf5 and threatens Rxf6+ afterward winning the Qd7. I don't know how this line works out but it doesn't seem so great after, ...Rg8. Qxf5 Qc6 (getting off d7 and threatenting mate. Qxh7+ Kf8. White can guard the mate and white's queen is actually suddenly trapped for the time being and our king is actually safer than before white activating two of our inactive pieces... however by giving back the 2 pawns I can't declare ourposition equal without at least a pawn for it so this line is probably 2nd best to...

Qb5 Qh5+ Kg8 Rxe7 Rxe7 Rxe7. In this case black gets to keep one of the pawns but white's position actually looks slightly better than in my last line. It's really debatable here but this is one of the lessons I would cover in any lessons. The path of greed in chess isn't usually the best course of action , especially when so many opponents pieces are better placed than ours.

POD
Position from a recently played game Quote
08-05-2009 , 08:23 AM
I suspect white is winning here. Has anyone checked it with Rybka yet?
Position from a recently played game Quote
08-05-2009 , 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by garcia1000
Oh, yeah. This probably means no more chess tournament for me until I get better
Don't worry, i played a lot and it took me quite a while to spot that while wondering why nobody had mentioned it.
Position from a recently played game Quote
08-05-2009 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir_Desir
Don't worry, i played a lot and it took me quite a while to spot that while wondering why nobody had mentioned it.
I only tried to walk into m2
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08-05-2009 , 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paymenoworlater
I suspect white is winning here. Has anyone checked it with Rybka yet?

Yes I did, see first page. White is winning.
Position from a recently played game Quote
08-05-2009 , 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezh
Yes I did, see first page. White is winning.
Lol, I had completely ignored that post cause I figured you were still drunk and/or leveling. Here's your analysis for posterity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezh
Oops right. Followed my own advice and fed it to Rybka. White is winning. Best defense according to the monster is 1...Ke8 2. Qg3 Qc7 3.Kh1 followed by the Queen penetration 4.Qg7 and Qxh7 and touchdown with the h-pawn. Evaluation: +4.50, so little room for doubt.
1 ... Ke8?? is a clear blunder. Of course white wins after black captures one of his own rooks with his king. Rybka tells me that 1 ... Qc7 is approximately equal.
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08-10-2009 , 01:16 PM
Jeez...cant get anything right...had the rooks on f8 and d8.....1...Qc7 still advantageous for white (Rybka 3): 2.Kh1 Rg8 3. Qxf5 Rg6 4.Rxe7 very long line that nets white blacks´ queenside pawns.
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