If Anand retires this year, where does he rank historically? - Chess and Board Game Strategy

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If Anand retires this year, where does he rank historically?

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04-23-2013 , 09:33 AM

EGarrett

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,562

If Anand loses the World Title to Carlsen and retires this year, where do you rank him among the 15 Undisputed World Champions?

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04-23-2013 , 09:49 AM

TexAg06

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,475

Rank him in terms of what? Absolute strength? Accomplishments? Which criteria are you using?

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04-23-2013 , 10:00 AM

EGarrett

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,562

Let's do an estimate for each of absolute strength, talent, and accomplishments. Absolute Strength is simply how many previous world champions he would beat in a match if they were brought out of a time machine, talent is if they all started with the same knowledge...and accomplishments are resume etc.

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04-23-2013 , 10:16 AM

TexAg06

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,475

Sounds good. And just to be clear, is this the list we're calling undisputed world champions?

1) Steinitz
2) Lasker
3) Capablanca
4) Alekhine
5) Euwe
6) Botvinnik
7) Smyslov
8) Tal
9) Petrosian
10) Spassky
11) Fischer
12) Karpov
13) Kasparov
14) Kramnik
15) Anand

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04-23-2013 , 10:58 AM

EGarrett

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,562

Yes that is the list, although I consider Morphy an acceptable entry as Patient Zero.

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04-23-2013 , 12:18 PM

Do it Right

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Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,890

Something I wasn't aware of, but that recently a number of the top 10 have made reference to, is that Anand has nerve issues. That kind of throws a pretty big monkey wrench into trying to 'objectively' measure him. On the other hand aside from their chess - consistency, handling pressure and confidence in your own game is a part of what makes a world class player. Just imagine a parallel world where Ivanchuk is always on his AAA game!

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04-23-2013 , 01:28 PM

networth

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Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 2,208

I have him tied with Spassky.

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04-23-2013 , 01:43 PM

PyramidScheme

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Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 19,898

Kasparov
Fischer
Capablanca
Karpov
Botvonik
Anand
Kramnik
Tal
Petrosian
Spassky
Smyslov
Alehkine
Lasker
Euwe
Steinitz

I guesss? I mean they are all better at chess than me so its hard to do, lol

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04-23-2013 , 03:14 PM

airwave16

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somewhere between ghandi and srinivasa ramanujan.

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04-23-2013 , 04:50 PM

#10

leofric

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Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 470

Kasparov
Karpov
Kramnik
Capablanca
Alekhine
Lasker
Fischer
Petrosian
Botvinnik
Anand
Steinitz
Smyslov
Spassky
Tal
Euwe

Might upset the Americans with how low Fischer is but I take into account his inactivity after winning the title. Also I rate Lasker and Capablanca highly because their strength came more from their ability to outplay opponents over the board rather than the prepared stategies which gave a lot of players the advantage from the Botvinnik era onwards.

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04-23-2013 , 06:30 PM

#11

PyramidScheme

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Quote:

Originally Posted by airwave16

somewhere between ghandi and srinivasa ramanujan.

lol

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04-24-2013 , 02:21 AM

#12

Montrealcorp

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kasparov
karpov
fisher
capablanca
morphy
alekhine
lasker
botvinnik
petrosian
steinitz
kramnik
anand
smyslov
spassky
tal
euwe

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04-24-2013 , 08:07 AM

#13

TexAg06

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,475

Quote:

Originally Posted by airwave16

somewhere between ghandi and srinivasa ramanujan.

hahahaha

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04-24-2013 , 10:49 AM

#14

ganstaman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by leofric

Might upset the Americans with how low Fischer is

I'm only upset that you put Kramnik 3rd. Don't get me wrong, I agree he belongs higher than the bottom of the list, but 3rd out of this group?!

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04-24-2013 , 11:48 AM

#15

John_Douglas

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 667

Based on a scientifical analysis of the play of all the world champions, here is the ranking in terms of chess skill:

1. Smyslov
2. Steinitz
3. Khalifman
4. Fischer
5. Capablanca
6. Kramnik
7. Kasparov
8. Tal
9. Botvinnik
10. Lasker
11. Ponomariov
12. Karpov
13. Euwe
14. Topalov
15. Anand
16. Petrosian
17. Kasimdzhanov

Thus, we see that Anand ranks quite low on the list, above only Petrosian and Kasimdzhanov. Of course, he still has a chance to move forward, though it's unlikely that he'll ever reach the heights of Khalifman at #3 or even Ponomariov at #10.

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04-24-2013 , 12:33 PM

#16

BobJoeJim

Tournament Director

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,200

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_Douglas

Based on a scientifical analysis of the play of all the world champions, here is the ranking in terms of chess skill:

This begs the question of whether you or someone else performed this analysis, and what the methodology was.

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04-24-2013 , 01:44 PM

#17

Rei Ayanami

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Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 11,685

My list:

Smyslov
Botvonik
Alehkine
Tal
Kasimdzhanov
Kasparov
Karpov
Spassky
Ponomariov
Petrosian
Euwe
Steinitz
Khalifman
Lasker
Anand
Fischer
Capablanca
Kramnik

My scientific methodology: http://www.random.org/lists/

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04-24-2013 , 02:47 PM

#18

Punker

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My list would be:

Kasparov
Karpov
Fischer
Alekhine
Capablanca
Tal
Botvinik
Lasker
Steinitz
Spassky
Petrosian
Anand
Kramnik
Smyslov
Euwe

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04-24-2013 , 05:07 PM

#19

airwave16

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i like how most people don't even put kasim on their lists

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04-25-2013 , 01:27 AM

#20

Daut44

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,213

impossible to compare different eras. how do you compare: morphy, capablanca, alekhine, fischer?

i would probably say
1. kasparov
2a. karpov
2b. fischer
4. capablanca

after that i dunno some of them well enough to really feel comfortable, but here is what i would go with shooting from the hip:

5. alekhine
6. morphy
7. botvinik
8. kramnik
9. lasker
10. steinitz
11. anand
12. petrosian
13. spassky
14. tal

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04-25-2013 , 04:22 PM

#21

chessterfish

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Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,078

Assuming the list taken when they were all at their prime and not paying as much attention to opening theory (although some I guess):

Kasparov
Fischer

Karpov

Capablanca
Alekhine
Botvinnik
Lasker
Kramnik
Anand
Steinitz

Tal
Petrosian
Spassky

Smyslov

Euwe

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04-26-2013 , 05:15 PM

#22

EGarrett

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,562

Quote:

Originally Posted by airwave16

i like how most people don't even put kasim on their lists

The lists are of undisputed champions.

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04-26-2013 , 08:47 PM

#23

leofric

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Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 470

My reasoning for Kramnik being so high is that his style (a little like Magnus) seems to not revolve around opening traps and theoretical knowledge and that he was always happy to accept a slightly worse position knowing his technique was good enough to hold it. Also it was pretty impressive to see him break Kasparov's dominance.

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04-27-2013 , 02:09 AM

#24

justblaze47

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Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,709

Quote:

Originally Posted by airwave16

somewhere between ghandi and srinivasa ramanujan.

You can take a time machine and as soon as anyone steps out Kasparov will cake them.

In terms of accomplishments as world champs I'd give it to Lasker, although it could be a toss up with Steinitz. Obviously Kasparov is in the top three.

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04-27-2013 , 08:24 AM

#25

Noir_Desir

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,333

Nr 2 on my list.

1) Alekhine
2) Anand
3) Botvinnik
4) Capablanca
5) Euwe
6) Fischer
7) Karpov
8) Kasparov
9) Kramnik
10) Lasker
11) Petrosian
12) Smyslov
13) Spassky
14) Steinitz
15) Tal.

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