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09-20-2010 , 10:07 PM
Starting to play more solid after months of reading/analyzing/tactics.

This one is a game I am pretty proud of... solid opening, I think I have a great position by middle game and I had a killer tactic that he fell into for a mate.

He saw h4 at the end to tarp my bishop but I had a mate in three if he tried to do that! He fell for the tarp!

http://www.chesscube.com/gameViewer/...rj%40gmail.com

I don't know if above will work but it's a link to a game viewer for chesscube....

If anyone has suggestions of better moves/etc. I'm all ears.
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09-20-2010 , 10:09 PM
His 7th move was awful. Both of his bishops were locked in for most of the game now.
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09-20-2010 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vyken111
If anyone has suggestions of better moves/etc. I'm all ears.
Fun game.

Black missed a win with 17...Bg5 18.Qh7 Nf6 trapping the white queen.

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09-21-2010 , 09:49 AM
yawn

play more...


not sure if 7.d5 is very good practically, because it gives him f5 (and/or b5 as undermining moves) as a plan.

Your opponent played poorly. You played quite well, though. Neat tactic at the end. Nothing special imo
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09-21-2010 , 10:29 AM
Not a bad game, but:

8. Bg5 looks pointless. Standard is b4, Nbd2-b3, c5.
The trap doesn't work if he plays 21...Rh7.
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09-21-2010 , 11:03 AM
Not sure I agree w/ that...he always has f5 at his disposal

But Bg5 wasn't necessary...he should park his Bishop on e3, imo
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09-21-2010 , 11:08 AM
after 21...qf6 or rh7 black protects against the mate, and still traps White's bishop.
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09-21-2010 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewbinson
Not sure I agree w/ that...he always has f5 at his disposal

But Bg5 wasn't necessary...he should park his Bishop on e3, imo
Maybe Nc3, b4, Nd2-b3 is an option too, with the same idea (c5).
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09-21-2010 , 12:30 PM
Why do you want to put your Knight on b3? I'd prefer to support c5 with the darksquared bishop either on e3 or a3. Or just play c5 as a pawn sacrifice.

Last edited by John_Douglas; 09-21-2010 at 12:35 PM.
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09-21-2010 , 01:00 PM
Here I'm talking about the position after 7...e5.

He wants to play c5, trying to undermine black's "solid" queenside pawn structure, and so get as many pieces as possible "eyeing" the c5 square, without making too many serious concessions.

However, playing b4 is a concession in itself and so this plan of ripping open and destroying black's queenside has to work if you want to persue this plan. You can't just play it at move 8, imo. If you want it, you have to build it up a bit more with support from (for example) Ba3 or Be3, Nd3 or Nb3, and getting the rooks to c1 and b1 or c1 and d1 or...you see that there are lots of possibilities here.

In fact, we shouldn't really be concentrating on this single plan so soon in the opening imo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt the theory here is to play b4. It doesn't look bad to play b4, because the position is King's-Indian-ish (and b4, the "bayonette attack", is the most common plan for wite in the main line KI), but here black has played b6 and Bb7 and so there are subtle differences in the position.

White is already has a significant advantage out of the opening and he would do fine developing his pieces normally (Bd2 or e3, Nc3 or Nd2, connecting rooks etc) BEFORE committing to a move such as b4.

E.g. b4 emmediately allows 8.b4 f5 freeing black's game instantly. If 9.ef, then 9...e4 10.Nd4 c5 frees black's game with practical chances of winning a piece (although I haven't done extensive calculation on this). If white doesn't take, black has loads of possible moves, such as f4, Bc7, Be7, Nf6,...

8.Nc3 or maybe Qc2 looks like the best option(s) to me. Bg5 was fine I guess. 8.b4 looks dubious to me, unless I've overlooked favourable complications for white- it initially just looks far too weakening to be a candidate move.
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09-21-2010 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Douglas
Or just play c5 as a pawn sacrifice.
This is exactly what I want to do. The sacrifice makes sense only if black captures with a pawn. And Black will certainly play Nd7. That's why I want to move a knight to b3.
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09-21-2010 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewbinson
In fact, we shouldn't really be concentrating on this single plan so soon in the opening imo.
Why not? It is the only sensible plan in this position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewbinson
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt the theory here is to play b4.
The theory ended at 4...e6, I believe. And b4 is super standard in this kind of structure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewbinson

It doesn't look bad to play b4, because the position is King's-Indian-ish (and b4, the "bayonette attack", is the most common plan for wite in the main line KI), but here black has played b6 and Bb7 and so there are subtle differences in the position.
b6, Bb7 is good for White, actually. Black's bishop is doing nothing on b7. I wouldn't even call it a developed piece, since it would be more active on c8, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewbinson

White is already has a significant advantage out of the opening and he would do fine developing his pieces normally (Bd2 or e3, Nc3 or Nd2, connecting rooks etc) BEFORE committing to a move such as b4.
White has to play b4 sooner on later. He has no other plan. He can't do anything on the kingside. The only thing he can do is c5 breakthrough, which should be sufficient to get a decisive advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewbinson

E.g. b4 emmediately allows 8.b4 f5 freeing black's game instantly. If 9.ef, then 9...e4 10.Nd4 c5 frees black's game with practical chances of winning a piece (although I haven't done extensive calculation on this).
9.Ng5

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewbinson
Bg5 was fine I guess.
Bg5 is completely pointless (unless the opponent doesn't see the threat).
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09-21-2010 , 05:10 PM
Yeah the inclusion of b6 and Bb7 in this King's Indian structure strongly favors White. b6 makes it easier for White to open lines on the Kingside and Black will have to waste time redeploying his Bishop.
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09-21-2010 , 06:13 PM
I know, and that's why white doesn't have to rush with b4, and can slowly improve his pieces.

b4 creates unnecessary complications...

8.b4 f5 9.Ng5 Bc8 looks fine for black

8.c5 looks interesting, but I would play sacs like this against better opponents, not ones that play poor openings...why does white need to rush with b4 ? He needs to persue his plan of developing and clamping down on the light squares, and stopping black playing f5.

b4 c5 seems so unnecessary here.

Okay, so now I'm going to check with fritz...
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09-21-2010 , 06:31 PM
Okay, I'm wrong about the b4 being bad...because I thought black could escape with Bc8 and stuff.

But there are lots of lines I've heckd with the computer (after f5) and white can refute all of black's atempts to escape te immediate onslaught, with Ng5, then c5 imediately. u The key point is that if white can play Bb5+ at basically any point, then there's no Bd7 because of Ne6, which I miscalculated.

However, b4 and c5 are given as only slightly better than Nc3 and Nd2 ad Be3, so b4 is probably themost clnical move.

The computer gives b4 with the idea of Be3 and then c5 as the most powerful line. And since black has no f5 he has to play stuff like Nd7 and Nf6 and is cramped.

So yeah, I was wrong...

One thing I find difficult in these types of b4 plans is how to calculate if and when a5 is effective for black...in some lines Nc3 cannot be played by white because of this very move a5 according to the computer.

Another thing I found interesting is that 7...e5 was given as the 2nd best move by the computer, so maybe it's not as bad as it looks. I think that black just gets a bit cramped...
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09-22-2010 , 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewbinson
One thing I find difficult in these types of b4 plans is how to calculate if and when a5 is effective for black...
It is useful when it prevents immediate c5 breakthrough. Usually White can play either bxa5, Nd2-b3, a4-a5, etc. or Ba3, Bxb4 (after axb4), a4-a5, etc. and after some exchanges still play c5, but all these moves take a lot of time. If White has not played b4 yet, then a5 is usually still good, as White has to play b3, a3, Rb1 in order to perform c4-c5. So, in general, a5 usually cannot prevent White's attack on the Queen side, but it can slow it down considerably.
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