Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Find a saving move! Find a saving move!

03-24-2009 , 08:23 AM
I was not sure where to put this. It is not really a tactical problem, (though of course it's based on it) so I couldn't put it in a tactic thread.. Decided to create a new one.

This game was played a couple years ago. I really needed a win in order to fight for first places in this quite strong Open tournament, so I went all out playing with black. It didn't work out too well, and my opponent took the initiative and, as he admitted after the game, he thought that the resulting position was completely winning for him.. But while calculating the line that led to this position I realized, that there is this witty move that saves black.. Find it!



As you see, black's position looks quite tough. White has a lot of pressure on queen side, it is tough for black to get his queen side pieces in to play, and attack seems to have died. However, there is a move that leads to a perfectly playable position (maybe even a slight edge) for black.

***NOTE***

This is not a forced win. White has a lot of replies after the move made in the game, so do not try to calculate them all. Just try to find a move that improves black's position dramatically. I would rate this as a quite hard one, probably for players of 2100+ or so.. It does not mean that lower rated players cannot try though - give me your best shot!
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 10:49 AM
Spoiler:
I'd play Nf6+; if Qxb8, Nf4+, gxf4, Bh3+, winning the queen. If king retreats after Nf4+, black does have advantage
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 10:54 AM
First move is correct.

Spoiler:
Black obviously wins a queen if white takes on f4.. But do you see what exactly does black play if white retreats to g1 or h1?
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 11:01 AM
heh this is such a random looking position, how the f did you end up here
Spoiler:
looked at stuff like 1.-g4 (but a little meh after 2.nh4 nf4+ 3.kh1 and what then), 1.-Bb7 (fails after 2.Bxb7 Qc7 3.Qxa6 I guess), 1.-Nf4+ but it didnt impress me either. What I ended up with was
1.-Qe7 just protecting about all for now, and if 2.Bxd7 I think we can play 2.-Rb7 (and if 3.Qxa6 then 3.-Qxd7 planning Nf4, saw some bogeys after 3.-Rxb1). Then again, I seem to suck at chess these days so probably wrong :P.

Last edited by smilingbill; 03-24-2009 at 11:02 AM. Reason: edit: darn
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 11:11 AM
Nice try Bill.

Spoiler:
Well you pretty much explained why the first couple moves don't work. Talking about 1...Qe7, the thing is, that White doesn't have to go to any forced lines (though white might be winning there too). My pieces have like NO moves at all. After simple 2. Bb4, followed by Na3, black is in huge trouble. In other words, Qe7 makes 4 of my pieces unable to move at all
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
I was not sure where to put this. It is not really a tactical problem, (though of course it's based on it) so I couldn't put it in a tactic thread.. Decided to create a new one.

This game was played a couple years ago. I really needed a win in order to fight for first places in this quite strong Open tournament, so I went all out playing with black. It didn't work out too well, and my opponent took the initiative and, as he admitted after the game, he thought that the resulting position was completely winning for him.. But while calculating the line that led to this position I realized, that there is this witty move that saves black.. Find it!



As you see, black's position looks quite tough. White has a lot of pressure on queen side, it is tough for black to get his queen side pieces in to play, and attack seems to have died. However, there is a move that leads to a perfectly playable position (maybe even a slight edge) for black.

***NOTE***

This is not a forced win. White has a lot of replies after the move made in the game, so do not try to calculate them all. Just try to find a move that improves black's position dramatically. I would rate this as a quite hard one, probably for players of 2100+ or so.. It does not mean that lower rated players cannot try though - give me your best shot!
Spoiler:

1...Nf6 and now
2. Qxb8 Nf4+:

3. gf4 Bh3+ 4.Kxh3 g4+ and ...Qxb8 (there's probably better here for Black
but it wouldn't surprise me if Black had adequate compensation)
3. Kh1? Bg4 threatens the Qb8 and also ...Bxf3+ with the idea of ...Nh3#
3. Kg1? Ne2+ 4. Kh1 ( 4. Kg2 Bh3+ ) Bg4 threatens ...Bxf3# and ...Qxb8.

Perhaps White might "survive" in the 3.gf4 line.

Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 12:05 PM
Perfect bigpooch.

Spoiler:
White is dead lost in gxf line, a simple Qxb8 is sufficient there as white cannot take on g5 because of Qc8+.

So as we see, white cannot take on b8, which means that black will now be able to activate his pieces and have a complete playable position. The idea is Be6, followed by Qc8 (Qc7 if white takes on a6), and white starts to feel that e4 is week and their light squared bishop is not that good anymore.
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingbill
heh this is such a random looking position, how the f did you end up here
Spoiler:
looked at stuff like 1.-g4 (but a little meh after 2.nh4 nf4+ 3.kh1 and what then), 1.-Bb7 (fails after 2.Bxb7 Qc7 3.Qxa6 I guess), 1.-Nf4+ but it didnt impress me either. What I ended up with was
1.-Qe7 just protecting about all for now, and if 2.Bxd7 I think we can play 2.-Rb7 (and if 3.Qxa6 then 3.-Qxd7 planning Nf4, saw some bogeys after 3.-Rxb1). Then again, I seem to suck at chess these days so probably wrong :P.
Haha, yeah how did you get here? I'm curious so could you post the moves of the game?
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 06:33 PM
Here you go 5.. c4 is what I prepared before the game to get him out of book and try to get some complicated position. Not the best try IMO

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Bb5+ Nd7 4. c3 a6 5. Ba4 c4 6. O-O Ngf6 7. Qe2 b5 8. Bc2
e5 9. b3 Nb6 10. bxc4 bxc4 11. a4 Nh5 12. a5 Nf4 13. Qe3 Nd7 14. Ba4 g5 15. g3
Nh3+ 16. Kg2 Bh6 17. Bc6 Rb8 18. Qa7 O-O 19. Ba3
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 06:51 PM
Ok im 1770, lets see if i can do it, dum dum dum

Spoiler:
i got the 1st move right and saw that queen winnign idea, but i didnt think it woudl really help because youd lose a rook and 2 minor peices, must be more to it i suck hahha
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 06:53 PM
Pyramid,

Spoiler:
yes, at that point he gets a Rook and 2 minor pieces, but if you look a couple moves deeper, he is totally dead in that position, as I am either mating him, or winning some of that material.
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 08:35 PM
ha ok, well then i sort of got it, you told us we didnt have to bother looking ahead, lolz
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 10:34 PM
Ok
So
1...Nc5
2 Qxb8 Nf4+

3. Kh1 Bg4
4. Q any Bxf3+
5. Kg1 Ne2#

3. Kg1 Ne2+
4. Kh1 Bg4
5. Q any Bxf3#

Amirite

OR
1... Nc5
2. Bxc5 dxc5
3. Qxc5 ???

Down a pawn with no compensation, weak k-side, bad pawns, did I miss anything
Find a saving move! Quote
03-24-2009 , 11:41 PM
Garcia, you got the idea why white cannot take on b8. However, as you noted correctly, after Nc5 white simply takes the knight instead of taking a rook.. That's why f6 is a way better square for knight. I am putting pressure on e4 immediately (it will become a problem cause white's light square bishop doesn't have squares on that diagonal. Plus this move opens my bishop, which will help me complete the development with Be6 and etc. Also, knight might become useful in a king side attack.
Find a saving move! Quote

      
m