Somewhat fast response there makes me wonder if I overlooked something.

I only have to choices here of course, hxg3 and fxg3. I see no reason to take with the f-pawn so hxg3 it is.

Just hoping I haven't overlooked something here

I guess I should give some analysis of what I expect from Sholar here. I was just getting the move out so that if he had something planned it might speed the game on and give me a move to consider.

As I said in my post before I think his bishop was better than mine and probably also better than the knight. He also lost a lot of control over e5, hopefully something that will enable me to have a knight stationed there (at a point were f6 doesn't win a piece of course)

Rc8 looks like a candidate. I can't exchange on c7 so Qa4 looks like an only move. Black has two moves, Qb7 or Qb8. Either way Rxc8 Qxc8 Rc1 looks decent as Rc7 sacrifices a pawn. I'll need to look closer if black gets enough for it, but initial thought is that he don't. If he don't have Rc7 I think I have decent control over the c-file after Q somewhere, Bf4 takes control of c7 perhaps Ne5. Anyway that doesn't look all that bad anymore.

After Rc8. Qa4 Qb8 I might also have Bf4. I'll need to look at that as well if I get the opportunity.

If he doesn't play Rc8 I guess h6 or something like Qb8 is possibilities.

After h6 Bd2 I'm not sure that much has been changed with regards to my previous analysis and the increased pressure on B4 might help me a bit actually.

Qb8 is also a possibility. I think I will need to take a hard look then as I get a bunch of choices to go through. I'll cross that bridge if I get there.

No surprise this time :-)

19...Qb8 is the move that made me comfortable entering this line, and it seems clearly better than the alternatives I considered, principally 19...Rc8 and 19...Qxc6. These lines aren't bad, they're just worse than 19...Qb8. Like, after 19...Qxc6 20.Rxc6 a5, Black is better, but there's not much going on. 19...Rc8 doesn't really capture the c-file, as White exchanges rooks and then plays Rc1. An old story.

So why does 19...Qb8 appeal? Well, on the one hand it covers the darksquares weakened by the suddenly missing bishop (f4, e5). White's queen is precariously placed, and so there is the option to gain some time on the queen. There is a "trap" here, which is if White retreats immediately 20.Qa4 Qb5 looks really nice. a2 is weak, and without the N@e2, White no longer has b3 due to Nd5-b3, so 21.Qxb5 is probably out of the question, and 21.Qb3 a5 looks very pleasant. White will have to move the queen again.

If White doesn't play 20.Qa4, then N7b6 with the idea of Rc8 is available. White's source of counterplay in some other lines, a3, is not as worrisome for Black now, since there is no knight ready to head to c3 if the b4 pawn is removed.

We'll see if I've overlooked something for White. Even with the N@d5, Bf4 is sometimes an annoying tactic, to distract either the queen or knight. But my attention has shifted from the c-file to just pushing the queenside pawns a little.

Once again I feel like I've given White's ideas short shrift, but other than "take the c-file, hope for good things" I don't know what I would be doing with the White pieces here. Probably trying to trade queens and stick a piece on e5, which is the same thing I've been worried about since move 13 or so.

*

It's a bit of a bad habit to make a move where you're opponent's reply is forced without having already decided on the continuation. There's not much to be gained by saying "Qb8 is good enough, but I'll see whether I like anything better next move" when there's not going to be any new information about the position. OTB, at least, I've gotten better about doing this to maximize the pressure on my opponent. Here, though, it doesn't really matter.

ok, so that bunch of choices I thought I would have to look at comes down to trying to find a plan. Black isn't threatening to do anything but what am I supposed to do here?

Black can't play Rc8 or Rc7 right so I think he would be planning to prepare it with either a5 or N7b6 and there isn't much I can do about that which means I need to plan for it when it happens.

Where to put the queen depends on blacks move. If black play N7b6 I need to go to c2 however against a5 I need to play Qa4 to prevent a black a4. The point is after a5 Qa5 N7b6 I can play Qb6 preventing a4.

So what prevents black from playing N7b6 Qc2 a5 intending a4? I would need to have some active replies. Best I can find is to play Ng5 threatening mate and be able to play Bf4-e5 after Nf6.

So I need a waiting move to see what black does that vacates the g5 square and puts pressure on b4.

Bd2 is my only idea here just trying to prevent what black is trying to do. It's basically all I got. I have no idea what my plan should be. That's probably not a good thing but trying to activate my pieces is all I can do right now.

So this opens up e5 for the knight. (It more directly attacks b4, but that's not so interesting.)

20...N7b6 is the main line here for me [Qb5 and a5 are alternatives], intending to put a rook on c8 and shielding a6 so 21.Qc2 Rc8 22.Qd3 (a good square, hitting h7 and a6) a5 (for example) since 23.Ng5 can be met with Nf6 and 23.Ne5 with Rac7.

Main questions for Black are as last time: how much time to spend on the c-file (less is more, just prevent the knight/rook from reaching a good square--which probably requires taking the file anyway), or preventing Ne5 (better to start attacking d5 now that there aren't three minor pieces stacked on the d-file, and use this to discourage the N@f3 from moving).

Anyway, those are very quick thoughts--hope to have some more time before the weekend, if not will just play 20...N7b6 so as not to slow things down too much, and that line still seems fine. 20...a5 is not very different, but might be worse (White queen has more places to hide now, what else is Black doing with N@d7) and 20...Qb5 is trickier--definitely white won't trade, and Qd6 with Ne5 ideas need to be carefully calculated.

Sorry for the delay, just no time for chess this week. Qb5 deserves a closer look, but is almost certainly going to be worse as White just keeps the queen on d6 or something and is annoying; a5 is likely worse as White's queen again has access to additional squares to annoy black (here, a4 and eventually b5). But that's superficial, and not anything I didn't know on my last post. Mostly, I haven't had time to look at the position, but it's time to move. N7b6 is a good move so there's no reason to delay. More commentary may be forthcoming...

I thought I had an easy decision with Qc2 as the only move (Rc7/c8 is a threat) but Bf4 seems playable as well.

Qc2 variations go as I have described previously with the queen on the b1-h7 diagonal and moving the knight to g5 and the bishop f4-e5 manoeuvre.

21.Bf4 Nxf4 22.gxf4 Nd5 23.Ne5 (see diagram) and black cant take the pawn because of Qf3 followed by Nc6



White is also threatening Nd7. 23...Rc7 24. Qxa6 Nxf4 seem like th e most likely continuation. This seems like a position in which white has some counterplay. The d4 pawn is still weak but white hasa good night at e5 and the possibility to create a passed pawn on the Q-side. Perhaps he can put some pressure on the b4 pawn (exchanging d4 for b4 would obv. be very good for white.

I would be interested in peoples opinion on that position.

I will play Qc2 as I think it will give more active play.

A sample line would be 21.Qc2 Rc8 22.Qd3 a5 23.Ng5 Nf6 24 Bf4 Rxc1 25.Rxc1 Qd8(e8/f8) 26. Be5 Nbd5 27. Rc5

Of course this isn't forced. a5 isn't a given but seems like a good move and Nbd5 can be replaced with Nbd7. The main thing is that whites pieces are starting to become active and I get some counterplay/pressure.

Main line from my previous post:
"21.Qc2 Rc8 22.Qd3 (a good square, hitting h7 and a6) a5 (for example) since 23.Ng5 can be met with Nf6 and 23.Ne5 with Rac7."
23.Qb5 seems more critical than the knight moves. Maybe Rd8 (idea: Ne7/Rd5)?

21...a5 is an alternative, and maybe a better move order. Black meets the threat of Nf3-e5-c6 by 22...Rc7 and 23...Rc8. Especially if the thought is to eventually play the rook to d8...

21...Rc7 and 21...Rd8 (trying to make the idea of preventing White's activity by attacking d4 work) are alternatives, but ...Rd8 seems unlikely to work here right now because Black's pieces need to watch a6, b5, and so on.

Rc8 is probably going to be the best here...Black needs to avoid some back rank weaknesses here, though. I am reminded of the principal that "knights defending one another" are usually bad because they get in each other's way (by taking away the best square of the partner).

has everyone lost interest or just no idea what is going on?
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spoiler for the players

Principle, not principal, in the previous post.

Also, I'm thinking a5 is the more necessary move (as it will definitely come soon), rather than Rc8 which just helps White with his reorganization of the queen. But this is a position where evaluating concrete lines is necessary.

The problem with 21...Rc8 22.Qd3 a5 23.Qb5 is that Black is, once again, completely paralyzed by the White queen.

I looked at a few different moves here (Qa8, Rxc1+, Nc7, etc.) and none really appealed to me. Something like Rcc7 or Ra8 might even be sensible in such a position, but Black should just avoid the mess.

One way to avoid it is just by anticipating and modifying the move order, with 21...a5. Then Black meets 22.Qd3 with Nd7 and is prepared to play Rc7/Rfc8 against 22.Ne5. Potentially, after 22.Qd3 Nd7

White may find 23.Rc4 (Rc6) superior to Ne5.

The other possibility is to play 21...Rc8 22.Qd3 Nd7.


(Playing 21...Rc7 looks worse to me. Sidenote so I don't forget later: Black needs to be careful about ...h6 due to the often strong reply g5 now, and is wise to keep a knight on d5 to control f4 and be ready to defend h7 if needed.)

The third diagram above looks pretty good to me right now. One thing to watch out for is that after 23.Rxc8+ Qxc8 24.Rc1 Qb8 Black does have some backrank concerns (e.g. 25.Rc6 Qb5 26.Qxb5 axb5 27.Rc8+ isn't mate, but it's not healthy either).

And all this talk about Nd7 makes me wonder what 20...N7b6 was all about, anyway. (I feel an obligation to mention Qb5 in every post...and then refuse to play it. Eventually I'll succumb for sure, though.) Could 21...Nd7 be a possibility here? It's hard to see that White can improve on repetition here (as, again, Qa4 runs into Qb5; the bishop being on d2 rather than g5 doesn't seem to improve White's position much).

So...is it worth while to go back and calculate 20...Qb5 lines now? Well, what of it? I see I mentioned 21.Qd6 as White's best, which seems right, so 21...a5 with the idea, simply of Ra6. Then Ne6/Qc6/Rc6 are all possibilities...

OK, this time I'll look. A reminder to myself to first check that after 21...Nd7 White doesn't have anything better than repetition, though (Ng5, Qd3, Qb3, etc. need at least a cursory look).

If someone wants to weigh in, this was the original spoiler:

"So 21...Nd7 22.a3 and White looks OK. bxa3, b3 open up the bishop without Black getting anything in return, and 22...a5 23.Qa4 N7b6 24.Qb5 is the same story as before. It seems, at least, that the B@d2 does help White, and if this was the right idea, it should have been played earlier. Perhaps much earlier.

So let's go back to the two diagrams in the previous post. The first diagram (21...a5 lines) then 23.Rc6 (if 23.Rc4 Qb5 should be OK) and I think I like the original idea when entering this line, of just a5-a4-a3. If White plays b3, the a3 anyway; if White plays a3 then bxa3 and Qb3 should be strong as the queen can't really be captured. I think this makes sense; Black just doesn't bother contesting the c-file, and challenges White to do something useful with it. By not opposing rooks, I also avoid having to worry about tactics like the following...

The second diagram (21...Rc8), and "23.Rxc8+ Qxc8 24.Rc1 Qb8 Black does have some backrank concerns" is an understatement as 25.Ne5 demonstrates. Maybe Black just trades on e5 (the pawn isn't hanging, as Qxe5 is met with Rc8 mate) and pretends that this is a good knight-bad bishop endgame, but White doesn't even need to agree to this. 25.Bf4 is also a possibility, when after Nxf4 White can play f4-f5.

These sidelines make me feel like I'm losing the thread of the position, so I'm going to just continue with the original plan. Even if it doesn't work, it seems relatively risk-free for Black. If all of the queenside pawns come off, this is just a draw, and it's very hard to see how White could win one by force.

I am sure that my opponent will be wondering why I spent four posts to play the obvious continuation to N7b6..."

I posted with Rc8 rather than a5. Unfortunately, as the last sentence indicates, I had sort of forgotten what I had wanted to do by the end of the post, so probably the just thing is to just make the move. Actually, that kind of makes sense. It wouldn't be the first time a fingerfehler cost me...just the first time in a correspondence game.

Qd3 is almost an only move. No other Queen moves makes sense for me here. So I'll just follow the previous analysis

OK, so 22...Nd7 lines are basically what we're doing. One consideration is whether we play 22...Rxc1+ and 23...Nd7. The question is basically whether we want to keep the queen on b8 or not, and whether White has anything better to do, as 22...Nd7 23.Rxc8+ Qxc8 24.Rc1 Qb8 transposes to 22...Rxc1+ 23.Rxc1 Nd7. Since, in the former line, I'd probably play Qb7 intending Ra8, that would be preferred.

White doesn't have to play along, though: 23.Bf4 and 23.Ne5 both merit consideration because of the backrank concerns. Same tactic as in the last spoiler, just moved up a move. But in this case, Black probably needs to play 23...Rxc1+ transposing. Again, the idea is to simply play Qb7 and Ra8.

I don't think Black has much of an advantage after 23.Bf4, but at least I'm no worse; Nxf4 is pretty much a draw, and it's easy to see everything geting traded off pretty quickly in that continuation.

I have two candidates right now.

Bf4 and Ne5

In both cases the minor piece is going to be exchanged so it's about wich minor piece I want to keep and the pawn structure.

After 23.Ne5 Nxe5 24.dxe5 Rxc1 25.Rxc1 I have a bishop against a knight. But the black knight is very strong on d5 and with the pawn structure my bishop isn't really looking that good. I do get some control of the c-file though.

After 23.Bf4 Nxf4 24.gxf4 Rxc1 25. Rxc1 Rc7 26.Rxc7 Qxc7 27.g3 Qc1+ 28.Kg2 Qxb2 29. Qxa6 h6 I get to keep a knight vs his knight. My d-pawn is still a bit weak but bI can play d5. I might have some other stuff as well but if I can successfully exchange the d-pawn I don't think I can lose the endgame and it's likely drawn.

Neither of the continuations gives me much hope to play for a win but at least I don't think I'm loosing any more.

I think my chances of a swindle is bigger in the Q+N vs Q+N endgame then with my B vs N situation. Also I think the Q+N vs Q+N is easier to hold if I play some imprecise moves

As mentioned above, this was probably White's best. The "everything gets traded" line is 23...Nxf4 24.gxf4 Rxc1+ 25.Rxc1 Rxc7. White plays R-somewhere and f5 is the threat. These lines are pretty equal-looking to me, and White's position is easier to play. Material is equal, but Blacks pieces are still awkwardly placed, and White has a clear plan: aim for Ne5 and f5.

Oh, and 25...Qxf4 in that line is suicide after 26.Rc8+ Nf8.

So I'll play Rxc1+, intending Qb7. Actually, I'll just offer it as a conditional move.

Then: 23...Rxc1+ 24.Rxc1 Qb7 with Ra8 coming next. If White plays Ne5 with the B@f4, then Black can trade off both minor pieces, arriving at a pretty drawn endgame. I'll look for better moves when we get there--right now, Qb7/Ra8 still seems like the reorganization that needs to happen before I can even think of making an aggressive gesture, and realistically, White's initiative continues.

I guess 23...Qb7 is an option, but either transposes, or White finds something better. No need to waste the energy on that.

The nice thing about long time controls is that I can wonder where it all went wrong for Black while barely remembering the debacle two moves ago :-)

I have 3 candidates here Be5, Ne5 and Ng5

if Ne5 black can exchange all the minor pieces but I think th eendgame is pleasant for me with control of the c and d file and no back rank vulnerability. However if he just plays Ra8 I don't think I have much here.

Be5 and Ng5 are likely to transpose to each other. ie. Be5 Ra8 Ng5 N7f6 Rc5 is the same as Ng5 N7f6 Be5 Ra8 Rc5

Be5 allows Nxe5 but I think that exchange is good for me and in the Ng5 line he can play h6 instead of Ra8 (Ng5 N7f6 Be5 h6). I like my position here after Ne4 Nxe4 Qxe4 as black has some back rank vulnerability as well as a potential problem with g7

I think they will transpose though.

That's wasn't on my (very short) list of White's continuations, but it seems OK. I do wonder whether that square isn't more suitable for the knight.

It's good to note that Ng5 can still be defended by N7f6, as Rc7 trying to divert the other knight doesn't work. (After, say, Ng5 N7f6 / Rc7 Nxc7 / Bxf6 g6 avoids the mate that would follow after gxf6?)

In short, there's no reason not to complete the plan here with Ra8. I must say, it's much more enjoyable to play these positions where I don't feel compelled to try and calculate every line to exhaustion.

What might White have in mind for the long term? Well, Nd2-c4-d6 looks like something (if he moves the knight the other way, N7f6 covers e4), and a3 is always on the table (although probably weaker now that the bishop doesn't have scope on the queenside). But really, there are too many possibilities to really worry about.

Very concretely, I think Qc4 is probably strong, re-asserting control over the c-file. Ng5 a good way to trade some pieces (after N7f6 & Bxf6)...but in either case, Black looks the same as usual. And after Qc4 we can start mumbling about Qb5 again, which is always a good time.

And what do I intend? Well, if White passes, simply Rc8. This is one point of the Qb7/Ra8 shuffle, if not the point, which is that the queen defends the a6 pawn in all lines, freeing the rook for grander adventures. But a5 and Qb5 are also going to be candidates. White's d5 pawn is again very secure, so there's not much point in working directly against it (although that's still a future possibility) so the ideas of throwing the queenside pawns forward and seeing what happens seems like the most logical active plan.

A reminder to myself that when I go through the game later, to ask the peanut gallery what they were thinking about here.

But yeah, Ra8 is the move here. I don't even have a second choice.

I have no reason to not continue as planned

Pretty sure I should just play N7f6 as planned, but seeing the N@g5 and B@e5 really highlights the f6 fork, and lo and behold, Nf8 is also not losing. It would be nice if responding to this threat gave Black the opportunity to play Rc8 (which is the move Black would play if White had to reply with Nf3, for example), but I don't think it does. After the logical 27.Ne4 (one reason having the N@f6 is useful, as per my previous post) Rc8 28.Rxc8 Qxc8 29.Nc5 is good for White. Black is still one tempo short (if he had the knight on g6 already, this wouldn't be possible, because the pawn on d4 would be overworked protecting both minor pieces).

Now, I know what you're thinking: play 26...g6 -- that also avoids mate, and then the N@d7 covers c5 in the previously mentioned line. But that is an ugly, ugly move and you are a bad person for suggesting such a thing. Getting to play Rc8 isn't worth it.

If I had the white pieces here, I don't think the idea of Nf8 would ever enter my mind, but somehow it seems very logical to consider it from my perspective. Still, N7f6.

Qc4 is still on the table, potentially with Bxf6 first, so I'll continue to let White dictate play until I have a real choice.

Just reassuring them that people are following this game. I'm kind of intrigued by the possibility of 27 Qf3 for white. I haven't thought it through much, but black's position feels like it has too many keystones and weak points to me. White should really be able to keep up the pressure.

Looking it over more, I dunno if that really gets white anything, especially because his pawn structure isn't amenable to trading down into an endgame.

i think white has a little pressure here and if he can't make progress, should at least be able to trade down into a drawn endgame. Rooks are likely to come off and the DSB should be able to trade itself for a knight, so the two "bad" endgames (B vs N, R vs R) should be easily avoided. A draw seems like the most likely result by far.

Good play by both players, intersting game, i just don't have much to add without starting to analyse seriously, for which i lack motivation ldo.

I don't have much analysis here. My pieces are decently placed although the knight is likely to go to e4 at some point

I want to be able to meet Rc8 with Qc2 and Rxc5 with dxc5. So Rc5 it is. I can always play Ne4 later or perhaps have black waste a move with h6.

It should be entioned that Rxd5 might be a possibility (not after Rc8 though as Rc1+ Kh2 Ng4 Kh3 Nxf2+) after a move such as a5. It doesn't seem to win outright but might be interesting ie(Rc5 a5 Rxd5 exd5 (Qxd5 loses as the queen need to cover f7) Bxf6 gxf6 Qxh7 Kf8 Qh6 Ke7 Nxe7 ad it's interesting. I will look at it if needed but most likely he'll play Rc8 so it's a moot point.

Hmm. That's a nice-looking move. Makes a5 awkward as Rb5 and Rxd5 are both possibilities. With Rxd5 the threat is (after Qxd5 or exd5) Bxf6 and Qxh7+. Of course, that might not really be a threat...I think I can just run the king to e7...but Rb5 and Black needs to find a new home for the queen not on the b or c files...

We are, anyway, at a critical junction, even without those tactics, so I'll take my time with this move: [how] is Black able reach an endgame where he has winning chances?

Obvious candidates are h6 (to avoid having to think about these big threats), a5 (anyway, although there's a lot of calculation needed to justify this choice: Rb5 and Rxd5 are both candidates), Rc8 (which prevents Rxd5 by force [Rc1+ is {at least} winning the queen for rook], but becomes interesting after Qc2 Rxc5 [possibly forced, due to Rxd5]).

Anyway, we'll resume by thinking about the implications of Rxd5. If I can ignore it, I think making a5 (or b3?!) work would be the right play, as White's minor pieces don't have good contact with the queenside at this moment. If I can't ignore it, then h6 is completely safe, and Rc8 is either good or bad. I need to give some thought to which pieces Black wants to trade and which to take to the endgame...