Once again, I agree with YouKnowWho. Seems like black gives up some good light squares on the queenside.

Early in his post, Sholar says the following.

He says he doesn't like Nb6 because of Bg5, but doesn't give any analysis behind it. I don't see any reason to fear Bg5. Personally, I like Nb6 because it covers d5 without creating any queenside weaknesses. After something like 11...Nb6 12. Bg5 Bxd6 13. O-O Be7 or 11...Nb6 12. Bg5 Bxd6 13. Ne5 O-O 14. O-O Rc8 I think black is in great shape with no real weaknesses and is castling next move.

Thoughts from some stronger players?

I've been spoiled by always having a new move to ponder the previous times I've been here. Not so this time! But that's probably for the best, a slower pace is more sustainable for me.

One thought while I'm here: I see a bit of "depth 0" thinking in my analysis. (One of the players here made that comment about some blunders in a blitz game, but I found it oddly resonant even for my play here.) Probably I should work on that, but I don't think I commented on either White's last move (how far to move the d-pawn) or anticipated White's next (where to put the knight). Those are a little related, as maybe the less ambitious d3 (allowing Ne4) was to be preferred. But that's a hard move to play, as it basically concedes that White is worse without a fight.

Well, that's all for now...til next move...

I basically have 2 moves Ne2 or Na4

Ne2 seems the most logical. It transfers the knight towards the kingside ad keeps the white pieces more coordinated. Basically I would need some concrete reason to play Na4.

Na4 is a bit offside. It does make Nc5 possible but I din't think c5 is a very secure outpost and even after a potential dxc5 the c-pawn will be very weak. Another possibility would be to play b3, Nb2-c4 But after the natural moves of Rc8, Nb6 I'm not sure that c4 will prove a good outpost either.

With Ne2 I get options of playing Nf4-d3-e5 which seems better. With d4 I would very much like to get a knight outpost on e5.

So I play Ne2 and will most likely play 0-0 next

Simple chess.

I expect something like 13.Bg5 or 0-0, but despite my above admonishment, I'm not really too worried about what happens next. Black is likely to either move the queen or castle himself, more or less still following the outline from my 10th move, although a5 as well as b6 should be considered for the queen.

I see no reason to not castle. As far as I can see there is no clever tactics or threats to be made here and I need to castle sooner or later.

The real question will be where my bishop goes and then the rooks, but that depends a bit on blacks set up.

Castling is of course fine, here, but maybe Black can be a little more annoying by playing Nd5. The reason is simply to make it a little harder for White to develop the bishop (but is Bf4 Bxf4 something Black should worry about?). If I were White, I might be eying e5 as an outpost (which is why Black would/will capture the bishop if it appears on f4).

Black can always meet Ng3 with Nd7-f6 to cover h5, and White putting a knight on g3 prevents White from meeting Bg5 with Bh4.

Finally, and somewhat less seriously, Black might throw some of those kingside pawns forward.

If I had some more time, I'd look at (in descending order of reasonableness) Nd5, 0-0, {Q moves}, h6 but I'm happy enough with Nd5 that I'll keep things moving along.

That sort of tells me where to develop my bishop. Be3 seems to passive and Bf4 obv. isn't an option. I guess Bd2 is possible, putting some pressure on the b4 pawn but it doesn't seem active enough. So developing the bishop seems right and then I can later look at where to place the rooks.

It's pretty much the only candidate I have right now and it has to be adecent move in a position like this.

Bg5 here is what I had as the main line. White makes an obvious developing move.

Black can either move the queen, or play f6. I don't see any reason to play f6 now, although one day that might change if controlling e5 (despite weakening e6) becomes important.

The main queen moves I am considering are Qb6/Qa5 -- Qb8 might have made sense last move (to control f4) but now that that is less necessary, looking ahead to connecting the rooks seems wiser.

Qa5 is preferable to me because it prevents Qa4, eyes d5, and prepares to move the queen along the 5th rank to the kingside (these last two are probably the most important for me). Although b6 is a natural spot for the queen, there's nothing to be gained from pressuring d4 at the moment, and there's a chance that Black might want to put a knight on b6 (to watch c4).

Thing will clarify a bit in another three or so moves (Black is going to castle, probably play h6, and then figure out where the rooks ago). Essentially, the question will be whether White tries to do anything active, or just wants to hold things together, and in either case, where Black is going to try and operate.

Black has been a little tardy castling and a little neglectful of the c-file. I think White can try Rc1 here intending 0-0 (Qxa2 Qc2 with big threats) Rc6 when White has a small initiative, probably enough for equality.

Maybe Nd5 wasn't best and Black should just have played 0-0: I think he was seeing ghosts and shouldn't have had to worry about Bg5 nor Bf4.

So black has yet to castle and have no control over the c-file.

So the first move that comes to mind is 15.Rc1 against which I see two black replies
a) 15...Qxa2 and b) 15...0-0

a) is clearly the critical response as b) allows white to place his rook in the open file for free.

So

15. Rc1 Qxa2 16.Qc2 after which white has a bunch of threats, Qc8+ leading to mateand Qc6 forking the bishop and the rook. I don't see any defence for black but N5b6 (N7b6 loses to Qc6+)

So I think this position is forced after 15...Qxa2



White would need to find something before black consolidates. With the king still being in the center it would be thematically correct to open the position with 17.d5

17...Nxd5 loses to Qc8
17...Qxd5 18.Rd1 seems critical for black. 18...Qc5 loses to Qe4. 18...b3 19.Qc3 Qc5 20. Qxg7 Be5. 21 Nxe5 Qxe5 22. Qxe5 Nxe5 23 Bf6 is winning as well. I don't think black can hold his bishop here.
17...exd5 18. Qc6 is also very unpleasant for black. So I think he needs to play 17...0-0 18. dxe6 Qxe6 19. Nd4

I'm not sure if white has enough for the pawn but at least he has the active pieces.

The other main option I have is 15Qc2. It is not as forcing and I would think the game would continue 15...0-0 16 Rfc1. It keeps material equality and I get the c-file.

It doesn't appear as venomous as the other line but I think blacks moves are pretty much forced there and I think Sholar will find them. N5b6 is literally the only move and so is 0-0 and neither require much analysis to see that the alternatives loses straight away.

From a objective point I'm not sure which position is better but I prefer to go for the material equality. I don't think I'm in as bad a shape as I should have been and I'm beginning to gain some activity which is good and needed. So by going for the slower option I can hopefully slowly claw myself back into the game.

Hmmm, where did I read this before? ...

So that development advantage I was so proud of a few moves back is gone, and truth be told I'm not sure I squeezed as much out of it as I should have, but I think Black is still in good shape (although my commentary on Qa5 is a little lazy, and oddly doesn't mention some things like covering a4, or moving the queen to b5 and the like which were definitely on my mind).

Qc2 is a pretty reasonable move, with White completing the development and trying to take control of the c-file. Various reorganizing moves involving the minor pieces or a3 were probably the main alternatives, there. The c6 square -- the defense of which has been neglected a bit by Black -- is now being eyed, as well as lining up the major pieces along the c-file. Black has a few possibilities to meet the threat, but they generally fall into moving the queen to cover c6, castling ("there is no threat"), and other moves which look weaker (from really extravagant stuff like f6 or N7f6 to playing Bc7 preemptively).

15...0-0 is a clear first choice, and a pretty necessary move for Black to make at some point, so we'll return to it in a moment -- suffice to say that it doesn't lose a piece as 16.Qc6 is met by Qc7.

15...Qb5 covers c6 and hits the knight on e2. After 16.Rac1 0-0 17.Qc6 Qxe2 18.Qxd6 N7b6 is pretty ugly, to give one line. Maybe Black argues that the doubled b-pawns aren't a problem because of the pressure on the a-file (and just starts to put the bishop out of harm's way and on a better diagonal with 17...Bb8 or Bc7), but that just means that White should move the other rook. Then after 16.Rfc1 instead is seems that White is getting decent play and taking control of the queenside play. Black looks OK here (in the Rfc1 lines with Bc7) actually.

15...Qc7 is an alternative -- basically my feeling is that White doesn't want to trade queens here -- but this seems like an inferior version of 15...0-0. (Similarly for 15...Bc7).

So 15...0-0 16.Qc6 Qc7 17.Qxc7 Bxc7 is fine, with Rfc8 and Bb6 coming for Black. A slightly subtle but important point is that White can't double on the c-file because the rook lacks a safe square against the threat/discovered attack Bxh2+. So Black at worst will contest the c-file. If White doesn't take on c7 immediately, he'll likely have to after Rfc8 or something. And if White plays 16.Rfc1 instead, Ra7 with the idea of Rc7 would seem to force his hand.

Probably White's best is to play Qe4 or something instead and start making gestures towards the kingside, but as before, I don't see anything concrete for White.

Since Black is going to castle on the next move even after Qb5, there doesn't seem to be any reason to delay making this needed move any longer. Indeed, I have probably made my life a little harder than necessary by even delaying it until now. If White opts for Qc6, an immediate Qc7 looks good, and if White plays R*c1 first, then Black can choose between Qb5 and Ra7.

Last thought: 15...0-0 16.Qc6 Qc7 17.Qa4 Nb6/Qb7 might be the main line here, given the above remarks. But then Black should be able to make something happen just by pushing the a-pawn, and this looks pretty pleasant either way. The Qb5 lines just seem more annoying to play...White is going to get the queen to c6 and hold the c-file for a while. A last look at some sample lines reinforces that idea. Both lines are OK for Black, but 0-0 just seems more practical.

*

Two general thoughts, which I'll be curious to read others' reactions to when all is said and done: the idea that a queen trade favors Black here (considerably, even), and that merely playing on the queenside is likely to favor Black here. Assuming Black doesn't fall apart completely (e.g., if White were able to operate on the c-file with impunity), Blac has more space and would stand to benefit more from any of White's pawn moves on the queenside (although is b3 an idea for White?).

*

Too many edits to this post are going to make it even less readable, so I'll submit here.

Definitely yes and definitely yes.

oh and b3, even though viable, won't help. Basically if queens are traded now, white will only be fighting for a draw, nothing more.

I don't have many candidates here. I think Rfc1 is the only move consistent with Qc2 and it is the most natural move here and it is what I planned after Qc2.

I lost a long write-up for this move when I accidentally closed the browser window (if I'm going to write essays, I should do so in notepad), but here are the main lines:

I'm having a difficult time seeing how to increase Black's advantage here. The main possibilities that I see are the two I mentioned above: Ra7 and Qb5.

16...Qb5 17.Qc6 Bc7* 18.Qxb5 axb5 and Black might be able to make trouble after 19.Rc6 with b4-b3 and b5-b4. This seems OK, but is pretty committal.


After 18...axb5

*17...Qxe2 doesn't seem to work, and after 18.Qxd6 N7f6 looks to lead more or less by force to

Variation, after 22...Rxb2
which seems pretty much drawn, once that rook on b2 gets chased/traded. The motivation for looking at this is that Rfc1 weakens f2 and the threat of Nd7-f6-e4 to support that attack (while the queen hits b2) might be something. White just plays Bxf6 to kill it, which is what leads to the above result. (White's queen takes on b4 and then returns to e1, where it is exchanged.)

So we return to the main idea, which is 16...Ra7. White has 17.Qb3 which is a little annoying, but after Qb5 (hitting the knight, with the idea Rc7) Black should be able to get the c-file back (if White protects with Rc2) or exchange queens (if White protects with Qc4). But 17.Qc6 seems critical, and Qc7 18.Qa4 (avoiding the queen trade seems best, and this is a good square for the queen, which I had hoped to prevent her from reaching) Qb8 Black will, at least, be able to contest the c-file.


After 18...Qb8

I'll console myself by noting that if Black had opted for 14...Qb6 instead, then we might have reached

Variation with 14...Qb6, after 17...Qb8 so the queen dancing was worth something.

**
I think my longer-term thinking here is to trade all of the major pieces and try to make something happen in the minor piece endgame. I'm not sure that's the best plan, but it's the best one I can come up with...
**

Comparing the first and third diagrams, I'd rather have the third, even though those doubled pawns are covering some nice squares, not being to contest the c-file easily makes me a little nervous.

Again a pretty interesting question IMO - which diagram would you pick, 1st or 3rd? From the first glance I think I would pick the first one 100% of the time.

I think this position is important (so in an OTB match I would have spent some time here)

My first candidate is 17.Qc6. I think black will play 17...Qc7 and I have once again some possibilities.

a) 18. Qa4 was my first try. It seems good to put some pressure on the c-file and the c6 square in particular. However after 18...Qb8 we get this position:



I don't have any ideas how to proceed from here other than to try to double in the c-file. However after 19.Rc6 N7b6 20. Qc2 Rc8 I think I'm in trouble. I don't want to exchange all the major pieces but 21. Rc1 loses after Rxc6. 22 Qxc6 Rc7. So I think I have to try something else.

b) 18. Ng3. I'm looking to transfer the knight to a more active square (e4). If 18...Qxc6 19.Rxc6 I think I get some active play. play could evolve something like 19...Bb8 (Perhaps Be7) 20. Ne4. now black can't contest the c-file because of his disconnected rooks and the a-pawn (20...Rc7 21. Rxa6 Rc2 22.b3 Rc8 probably isn't good enough for black as far as I can see)

Do black have other options than 18...Qxc6? I think 18...h6 could be a bit annoying as Bh4 is no longer possible. After Bd2 black can now play N7f6 (not possible before as Bxf6 Nxf6. Ne4 seems to solve a lot of whites problems)

Perhaps white can play 19. Ne4 (19....Bxh2 20.Nxh2 hxg5 21.Qxc7 Rxc7 22.Rxc7 Nxc7 23.Nxg5 and white gets to exchange rooks in the c-file and can likely hold the endgame (I think the endgame with the pair of knights is a good scenario with this pawn structure? I might be wrong)

So do I have anything instead of 17.Qc6?

Ng3 with the idea of improving the knight's position runs into Rc7 and black takes over the c-file. So I don't like that.

I think Qc6 is necessary to force Qc7 otherwise black gets control over the c-file after Rc7

I don't understand why Qc7 here was pretty much the only move they both looked at? Both Be7 (forcing the trade pretty much, Rc7 is a threat) and even Bb8 (again, Rc7 trapping a queen is looming) seem viable options.

So, I've been keeping track of this game in chessbase, but basically just have variations there with no text annotations. As a result, when I come back to the game, I have no idea whether the lines where ones I gave some thought to, or just throwaway moves to put down some sample ideas. So I usually just look to my last spoiler to see what was on my mind, but unfortunately I didn't write much down last time. Clearly I am not much practiced as a correspondence player.

Anyway, the candidates I already have are: Qc7, Qb6, Be7, Bb8. (I wanted to write something about not having that many choices because White's threatening to take a piece, but Bc7 also works here.*) Qc7 is what I had as the main line, and Qb6 is just an inferior version of the Qc7 idea, as I'd meet Qa4 with Qb8 and 18.Qxb6 N7xb6 19.Rxb6 Rd7 20.Ne5 Bxe5 21.dxe5 is better for White.

On the other hand, what I have down as my main continuations after Be7 and Bb8 don't look half-bad for Black.

17...Be7 18.Bxe7 Nxe7 19.Qd6 Nf5 and now after White moves the queen, I have Nf6 (but White has Rc5 once Black moves the N@d7, which is a little irritating). One idea is Rc7, supported by Nd5 if needed, the other being to just operate on the d-file, although the queenside pawns might be too weak in that case.

17...Bb8 18.Qc4 Rc7 19.Qb3 Rfc8 looks great for Black, but this might be one of those examples of my having just put down some random moves, as this is pretty compliant play by White. And Black needs to be a little careful that Bb8-a7 isn't just a waste of time, where the piece bites on granite on d4 and gets in the way of defending the queenside pawns.

17...Qc7 is the main line from my previous post, when I was satisfied with 18.Qa4 Qb8 although I'm a little more skeptical of my claim that "avoiding the queen trade seems best [for white]" as White does retain control of the c-file in this case.

*Initially I was going to write "but this is just silly" but it's not *that* ridiculous. Black can play Bb6 and White doesn't really gain anything by renewing the threat (e.g. with Kf1 or Ng3). Black's queen is a little short of squares, so maybe a3 is an idea...I need to give some more thought to what White is trying to do here.

**
The fact that White has Ne2 supporting Rac1 makes recapturing with the queen after a rook trade somewhat less than ideal for Black.
**

Anyway, this post is mostly just a review for myself. I need a little more time to think about the options here.

Are there any other moves which don't lose material instantly? Heh, this is not a very subtle way of generating candidate moves...Qb5. OK, that should be everything. Does Qb5 still work here? I guess I'll check that out again, too. Looking back, I don't think I considered Ra7 in those lines, and surely it would have been better to play Qb5 on move 15 or 16 rather than Ra7 first.

So I'll guess that Qc7 > Bb8 > Be7 > Qb5 > Bc7 based on the above, and for the sake of my own sanity, I might not worry about the possible Qb5 lines, but I will take a closer look at the bishop moves. Even Bc7.

19.Qd6 Nf5 20.Qc6 Nf6 21.Rc5 and White is fine. As noted, the N@d7 serves a very useful function in covering c5.


My thought of, instead, 19...Nd5 20.a3 and I don't have a good answer.


18.a3 seems to cut through this line (it's definitely good against the slower Bc7 lines, but works here too) Rc7 19.axb4 Qxb4 20.Qxa6 Qb2 21.Rab1 Rxc1+ 22.Rxc1 Bf4 23.Bxf4 Nxf4 24.Re1 to give one long and only partially forced line is fine for White. There might be improvements for Black (OK, if the Bf4 tactic doesn't work, try something else, but what?), but I'm happy enough with my choice that I stopped looking.

So the 18.Qa4 Qb8 lines still look nice. To give one fantasy line: 19.Rc6 N7b6 20.Qa5 Rc8 21.Rxc8+ Qc8 22.Rc1 Rc7 and here Black is happy to continue trading on the c-file. Maybe h6 at some point to prevent back-rank stuff, but it's nice to prevent Ne5 with the threat of f6, and White might waste a move to move that bishop on his own at some point.



To the latter point: 18.Qxc7 Rxc7 19.Rxc7 Bxc7 20.Rc1 and OK, White has the c-file for the moment, but so what? This might be the best outcome of them all for Black.


Not true!

True.

So we'll stick with the intended line, but maybe we learned something by looking at these sidelines.

I'm starting to question whether these write-ups are just too long and as a result discourage feedback from spectators. I think I'll give a three sentence one which includes a spectacular blunder next time just to see if anyone is paying attention :-)

Oh, we paying attention alright.. I still think 17.. Bb8 is fine both 18. a3 Rc7 19. axb4 Qxa1 20. Qxc7 Bxc7 21. Rxa1 Nxb4 and 18. a3 Rc7 19. axb4 Qxa1 20. Qxc7 Qxb2 21. Qxd7 Qxe2 seem solid for black, and not something he looked at (they are pretty forcing after all). But I guess game continue has a solid thought behind it too, might be the best actually.

As I said on my previous move, I don't think Qa4 lines are good for me.

Exchanging through on c7 is a possibility and do give white temporary control of the c file (Qxc7 Rxc7 Rxc7 Bxc7 Rc1 however it does little good. Black covers all the entry sqyares and will be able to play something like Bd6 Nb6 and Rc8. and I have a bad ending

So I stick by Ng3 as the best option here. TRying to actibate your pieces an't be totally wrong here.

Black has a couple of responses here I think

a) 18...Qxc6 as said in my previous post, I think that this is a good outcome for me and I think the position will be very even

b) 18...h6 could very well be blacks best choice but i think the position after Ne4 offers decent drawing chances

Another possibility would be 19. Qxc7 Bxc7 (other retakes allows Ne4) 20.Bd2 N7f6 Rc4 and white seems to get some pressure down the c-file and have e5 for a knight.

c) I guess Bxg3 is a possibility. I don't see any concrete reason or black to exchange his bishop there and his bishop should be better than mine so I don't think it is good for him to exchange here.

Well, that's a surprise. The knight had been a target for tactical shots in the past, but seemed reasonably safe now. I guess an idea is Ne4, hitting the bishop? Not sure what else it accomplishes on g3.

The most obvious move here is Rfc8, after which White is forced to make a decision on the queen. I'm not sure whether Ne4 is really a threat (if it is, Bxg3 might be the simplest solution, although it's nice to keep e5 under a watchful eye).

Stranger things, involving putting a piece on f4, are now also possible.

But no matter: Rfc8 or Bxg3 first, with the same idea, is the best move here, and these other issues can be dealt with in future moves. White plays either Qxc7 or Qa4 in reply.

19.Qxc7 Raxc7 20.Ne4 Rc1+ seems fine (Bf8 is always possible, and White needs to recapture Bxc1 to avoid trading both rooks, which is very convenient for Black.)

19.Qa4 Qb8 20.Ne4 is a little more annoying. (If White avoids Ne4 and plays something like 20.Rxc8+, this is very similar to the 18.Qa4 lines discussed earlier. The earlier lines after 18.Qa4 Qb8 included 19. Rc6 N7b6 20.Qa5 Rfc8, but I don't see why this should be very important.)

But this move order requires Black to play 20...Bf8 (retreating the other way, to c7, runs into 21.Nc5), which means after all of the rook trades occur on c8 and c7, Black recaptures with the Nd5xc7 rather than Bxc7 (the queen needs to stay on c8 to defend a6). This position looks more awkward, and White might even be able to improve by delaying Rxc8 and playing 21.Rc6 anyway, targeting a6.

So Bxg3 looks better, and maybe it's unavoidable. What else? 18...Qxc6 19.Rxc6 and the bishop still needs to move, again Bxg3 is probably best, so that doesn't help. 18...N7f6 was my solution to this maneuver when I considered it a long time ago, but 19.Bxf6 Nxf6 20.Ne4 (anyway!) Nxe4 21.Qxe4 OK, this might be an idea, but I think Bxg3 is better. White's bishop isn't that great anyway.

I also like the idea of keeping more pieces on the board and trying to outplay White from a position I think is easier to play. Black might even eschew the exchange of queens here e.g., 18...Bxg3 19.hxg3 Qb8 with the idea of just rolling the queenside pawns. Trading exactly one pair of queenside pawns seems like a really nice achievement for Black. More important than trading queens, I think.

So: Bxg3. I'll have a harder decision to make next move.

Darn. Just realized that ...h6 first was an idea, because it would mean that Bxf6 wouldn't be possible after N7f6. This is not exactly a subtle idea. In fact, I think I mentioned it back when Ng3 was first on the table (that it means after h6, White can't play Bh4). Somehow I was fixated on the idea of avoid h6 since the bishop is going to go to d2 anyway, but here was a line were Bxf6 was useful.

I knew I should have make that post without making a move :-)

Anyway, too late to worry about it now.