You are correct.

I LOVE Caro-Cann! At least some game with the opening I'm familiar with. The only one trouble is, that is quite hard to play for a win for black side - but it's a lot easier to get equal position for draw.

1. e4 c6 2. c4 looked really interesting. The first move that came to mind here was 2. .. e5 with the idea of trying to get the sort of great opening black can get against: 1. e4 c5. 2. c4?! where black locks the center with d6/e5 and usually gets fluid play with f5. Flipping through played games it looks like optimal play for both sides might run something close to:

1. e4 c6 2. c4 e5 3. Nf3 d6 4. d4 Nd7 5. Nc3 Ngf6 6. Be2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8. Re1 a6 9. Bf1 b5

Seems to be a pretty interesting and dynamic position with lots of spaceeeeee for black. And everybody loves spaceeeeee. Though to be fair white scores quite well from that position so I may very well be misevaluating it.

isn't that just a basic old indian? (which is underrated, admittedly)

Hmmm, looks like it so far as I can tell, though I know close to nothing about the Old Indian though so am going purely by wiki's theory entry! Black's idea does not seem to be old indian however. That is if white does not play d4 and allows black to expend the tempo to get the c5/e5/d6 setup.

I used to play the Old Indian. I really liked it. Can't remember why I gave it up.

If I played the C-K, that's probably the line I'd go for. However, I would keep the pawns on c6, d6, and e5. Playing ...c5 gives you the hole on d5, and I don't like doing that.

I'm a little concerned that my previous analysis in this thread indicates that I have entered a period of cognitive decline in life. Rb8 as a candidate move in that position? Seriously?

But OK, a more sober assessment is that the moves to consider here are Ne5 and Bb7. And if you accidentally grabbed the rook, Ra7 is the only square that makes sense (on b8 it's just a target for Bf4).

Ne5 would be great if it netted the bishop on f3. After: 8...Ne5 9.d4 Nxf3+ 10.Nxf3 Nxd5 Black is pretty happy.

A pleasant dream.

But a fly in the ointment there is that White does not have to meekly concede the bishop pair. Simply 9. Be2 and I actually don't see a great continuation for Black. (Other than repeating with Ned7.) The problem is that Black can't capture on d5 because after 9...Nxd5 10.Nxd5 Qxd5 11.Bf3 skewers the queen and rook. So I guess 9...Bb7 is the correct continuation. Let's hold that position for a moment:

Diagram A
(Adding this for later: after 10.d4 Ned7 [what else?] 11.Bf3 [+alternatives] Nb6 12.d6 [+alternatives] Bxf3 13.Nxf3 e6 we reach:

Diagram B
)

If we look at 8...Bb7 (renewing the threat of b5-b4) then 9.d6 looks like White's most forcing continuation (9.d4 is an alternative in light of what follows*), but after 9...Bxf3 10.Nxf3 e6 Black has the better structure, more space, and better development. What's not to love?

Diagram C

Now go back and look at B -- and White can definitely improve on his play in that line. So if the best Black can hope for after Ne5 is that White makes some inaccuracies to reach a position similar to after playing Bb7 (except possibly for a misplaced Black knight?) that seems to suggest that Bb7 is the more accurate move order.

The last thing to consider is whether White's alternatives to 8...Ne5 9.Be2 are any good -- maybe Black allows the possibility of repetition once, just to see if White deviates (in what we consider to be a significantly worse way). The problem with that line of thought is that maybe White can improve on Bf3...the alternatives there don't look like anything special, but they don't look worse than Bf3...I'll save it until the post-mortem to wonder if White had planned Be2 after Ne5, or what alternatives to Bf3 he had in mind. (I can't remember the annotator, maybe Chris Ward, maybe it's a common joke, about repeating once "just to show who's boss" although it's also a reasonable tactic to move closer to time control. Here, neither seems like a good motivation.)

*Here, b4 is possible, and probably best. But unfortunately, it looks like this entire line is probably better [for White] than the d6 line...which complicates things, to say the least. Which makes sense -- White should be playing for speedy development here, and trying to prevent Black from playing e6 and castling into safety. With that in mind, something like 9. d4 b4 10.Ne4 Nxd5 11.Bg5 is pretty annoying (prevents e6, threatens Nd6+)


I think Black is OK there (Qb6+e6 should hold everything together) but for current purposes, I'm happy to note that 10...Nxe4 11.Bxe4 Nf6 is a completely safe alternative. Maybe also a better alternative, but we're going to wait for that position to show up on the board to decide. Hopefully I don't regret that.

So the move is Bb7. I can't believe that took so much work. I do feel pretty good about the analysis above, but there's no way I can spend this much time on moves going forward. OTB I probably play ...Ne5 after 15 seconds of thought, so hopefully ...Bb7 is actually the superior option.

not much to add

It must be a little frightening to write such a long, 2-part spoiler over more than 24 hours, and then have your opponent respond with a single line 11 minutes after you move. It's got to give you the feeling that your opponent has a much better understanding of the position than you do.

I'm sure there are many places in that monograph where my commentary doesn't make sense. But I really don't know what I was thinking there. I feel like there was some line where that skewer mattered, but it might have been a hallucination. Very odd, especially as Black also has Qe6+ in most of those lines...I'm not going to try and correct the other errors. At least this current move is easy to find.

pretty easy move. Qxf3 is possible but I see no reason to not just develop my pieces

Or much worse! After ...e6 here I think Black is doing well. White doesn't have good development to compensate for his IQP, and his best minor piece has been exchanged. I'm not really sure where White went wrong but the whole maneouvre looks ill-advised. He shouldn't have wanted to play d5-d6, and he probably only played it because it allows the natural development Nf3, 0-0. But then Bf3 is probably to blame instead.

Not quite sure why white went in for this... black has traded a set of minors and should be set up to blockade with Nb6 and e6 (though I think e5!? is neat) after picking up the d6 pawn at his leisure. White doesn't have any targets except for the b5 pawn, but a4 (forcing b4) just embarrassingly points out how little the queen's knight has to work with.

called it, booya! now which one, e6 or e5..? to me, e6 looks a bit better, black just has a very solid and pleasant position and a target to work on. After e5 I think white can try to spoil the party with immediate d4.

Agree completely with you on ...e6. I like the idea of ...e5 too, but I think ...e6 keeps black solid and gives white virtually no targets. After ...e6 black can start to pile up on the IQP and there doesn't seem to be much white can do about it.

Also, white will be sorely hurting with his light-squared bishop gone. It's going to be difficult for white to get some threats together with no real black weaknesses and a lack of a light-squared bishop.

e6, B takes, 0-0, Nb6, Nd5, Rac8, Q somewhere, Rfd8, B somewhere,...... very easy sport/game.....

This is an easy move. With 10...e6 Black solves all of his problems: the advanced d-pawn is secured and his kingside development is assured.

There are no real alternatives. e5 is odd, and moreover, since d4 cannot be met by e4 (the pawn is lost after Qe2 or even Ng5), it cannot be justified on any grounds. exd6 is terrible.

*

In another two or three moves, both sides are likely to complete development and castle, finishing the opening phase of the game, and it is clear that Black will emerge with the better position.

Because of that, I'm slightly confused by A.Ertberjg's spare commentary, as this can't possibly be a known line that he is following. If he's linking to ertbjerg.blogspot.com with for details, though, that would be masterful subterfuge.

In terms of short-term planning, it doesn't really matter what White does here, now, Bxd6 and 0-0 are likely coming next, and something like Qb6/Rc8/Rfd8 might be a plausible development afterward. Black has superior development, a nice bit of space on the queenside (maybe b4 is still an idea in some lines), and a potential target in White's d-pawn.

Black wins this game pretty much every time here. He understands the position better and is making more of an effort. Plus he's already better, or at absolute worst, equal.

yeah, Sholar's plan rocks
now white's plan: d4, d5. if not posible then 0-0, Qe2, Rfd1, B somewhere, Rac1, Ne4 probably. No d3, neither a3.

This is kind of embarrassing. Making all that analysis of Bf3 and then overlooking this completely natural move. I have no idea why I felt black had to play exd6.

So basically black has a very comfortable position and the exchange of the lightsquared bishops certainly favors him. The next couple of moves will see both black and white will finish their development and castle.

Then I fear black will take control of d5 with a manoeuvre like Nd7-b6-d5, place his rooks in the c and d file and there is not much i can do about it. I will have to castle, play d4 and develop my bishop. I'll likely place a knight on e5 and figure out where my rooks need to go (c,d and e file are all viable options depending on the concrete position.

I would of course like to play something like d4-d5 and exchange the isolated pawn but that is unlikely to happen. I need to try and generate some compensation but I think black is clearly better here.

I have to be very careful to not end up with a horrendous endgame so I can't exchange my minor pieces, yet I also need to prevent black from getting control of the c-file with an invasion to c2. I'm not that familiar with the ending but I think exchanging rooks and queens are preferable to exchanging minor pieces.

I guess I can try to generate some play with moves like Bg5 and Ne4, but I certainly would prefer if the light squared bishops were still on the board.
So I think I can conclude that 8.Bf3 wasn't nearly as good as I thought and that the natural moves like d4 and Nf3 would have been better.

This turns out to be a very long post with very little concrete analysis and just me rambling on about the position. I guess the only moves to consider are d4 and 0-0 and also that they will transpose so it doesn't matter.


If this had been an over-the-board game I would have spent little time on either moves as this position really isn't a critical one. The only reason I'm spending time here is to acknowledge that I overlooked a move and black has the better game.

Still, there will be plenty of play and hopefully I can create something down the road.

Hmmmm. d4 seems like a fairly serious issue here. d3 obtaining the e4 square as well as abstractly keeping his pawns off dark squares seemed like a much better idea. He said in his comment he wasn't focusing much since the positions weren't critical ones, but they really were. Moves like d4 are hugely committal. As is often said, pawns can't go backwards!

Black would like to prevent White from playing d4-5 and exchanging the d-pawn, as there's no reason to allow him to exchange a pawn that can only be a future liability. Well, not only, but it's hard to see White getting the kind of IQP position where the isolani is helpful.

Nb6 does this most brutally, but I don't like it because of Bg5. Bxd6 and b4 are the most natural moves, and the only ones I am seriously considering here.

Bxd6 argues that d5 here is a mistake which Black can meet with e5. I think this is true: the e5 pawn is secure, but d5 will be hard to hold without a lightsquare bishop, and with the c3 knight remaining on shaky ground because of b4. If White continues with something like Bg5 (11...Bxd6 12.d5 e5 13.Bg5) then 13...Qa5 seems to hold things together nicely (preventing Ne4 and threatening to win the pawn with b4 and Nxd5). Actually, this is hard to prevent, and it's hard for me to find a good move here for White. Of course, Bg5 isn't forced, and 13. 0-0 0-0 means that Qa5 doesn't pin the knight...and it does seem a little perverse to make Black's bishop into a tall pawn and e5-4 is probably never really going to work...

So let me revise my earlier assessment. I can't make Bxd6 work, although I wouldn't be too surprised if someone found an improvement which made it possible.

Which leads me to...b4 preventing d5 by removing the knight's support and after 12.Ne2/Na4. This was always an option and made it easy to play into this position without having to calculate much. Black will take the more traditional approach against the isolated pawn, blockading it and playing around it, as it isn't really weak enough to attack directly on d4.

I'm not really sure, but I suspect that attempts by White to take advantage of the pawn by a3 or the like will rebound in Black's favor. Black is happy to open a second front here, as despite the pawn on d4, White doesn't have superior maneuverability. I'd definitely welcome commentary on this for my perusal after the game. I find that my intuition about advanced pawns is not very strong.

Last-minute thought: does move order matter here? Specifically: 11...Bxd6 12. d5 e5 13.0-0 b4! (above I only thought of 0-0, noting that the insertion of castling by both sides meant that Qa5 no longer pinned the knight). This solves that problem, kicking the knight before White has time to play Bg5. (Once White has Bg5 in, Ne4 is the threat, which maybe I didn't mention explicitly above, but is one/the reason Black moves the queen.)

Actually, I like this a lot. Again, d5 isn't compulsory, and maybe this just transposes (after 11...Bxd6 12.0-0 b4, for example). But it doesn't hurt to offer White the choice, and...

Oh wait, just noticed a problem. After 11...Bxd6 12.d5 e5 13.Bg5 Qa5 14. Nd2 b4 runs into 15.Nc4.

The flip side of offering the option to White is that I need to be very sure that it is a bad one, and only superficially good. Since I clearly can't do that, I'm going to not waste any more time here, and play the safe and strong b4.

It will surprise no one who has read this far that spending too much time in the opening on nearly equivalent moves is a challenge for me. I've done better at playing practical chess recently, which has helped my results, so this game is practicing the wrong behavior for me.

I sort of dislike b4. I understand his idea but I think it just helps white. Gives a target, some previously inaccessible squares. I think he could have achieved same goals without giving pretty much anything up. Someone seriously needs to write a book "Pawns - they don't move backwards" which would talk SOLELY about that issue.