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Old 10-04-2010, 02:45 PM   #651
hoyasaxa
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

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Originally Posted by Noir_Desir View Post
That's what we found out in the post mortem too. But white has much more chances for a pull and a pleasant game after 5.Bg2, which imo warrants a ?! for 5. Nxe5.

In practical chess it's not white's goal to take a pawn like that and suffer from positional problems for a long time after that. For example, if you don't know precisely White's methods of neutralising Black's play, i would never advise you to accept something like the Benko Gambit. On below-master level chances for white to get ground down are just too high.
IIRC fischer said he would always just take the pawn off, even if it meant a positional nightmare for him for a long time.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:30 PM   #652
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

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Originally Posted by hoyasaxa View Post
IIRC fischer said he would always just take the pawn off, even if it meant a positional nightmare for him for a long time.
Just taking the pawn off is probably not a bad strategy if you are Bobby Fischer. Perhaps less so if you're a mere mortal
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:07 PM   #653
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

+1 he also liked to take the poisoned pawn of the najdorf sicilian. But except for that particular line which i play too, (and because im a mere mortal...) i usually prefer to offer a pawn than take it.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:52 PM   #654
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

im very interested in JDouglas games and Noir_Desir post morten analysis.
I've been doing my homework (cause lately i ve been looking for lines against 1.c4) and it seems white position is bad (or at least very difficult), even after 7.Nd3. Im playing the natural move 7. ... Bf5. Now what? Ther's 3 reasonable plays for white: the unnatural Kf2, the worse e3 and Nb4 (any other black is crushing). if Nb4, then 8. ... c6 threatening d5 is at least winning the pawn back with better position. In most lines i ve seen black gets very nice advantage. Would like to hear more comments against black.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:27 PM   #655
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

it hardly seems worth analysing, Black is clearly doing well (and maybe totally winning), the real decision is whether you want to play for traps like this in the opening when as Noir says, 5. Bg2 makes more sense and is probably the critical test of Nd4.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:15 PM   #656
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

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it hardly seems worth analysing, Black is clearly doing well (and maybe totally winning), the real decision is whether you want to play for traps like this in the opening when as Noir says, 5. Bg2 makes more sense and is probably the critical test of Nd4.
no, not for traps, for long games too. Of course i started by Bg2, but after exchanging knights i found it quite easy for black. Then i jumped to the trap, which is not 100% clear to me yet after proper white's play. But almost...
Hoping to try it on a tournament i start on wednesday. (same as the 2. ... Qh4+ line in the kings gambit posted here too, somewhere)
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:34 PM   #657
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

lol, checkmated with K+B+N vs K in the wrong corner.

http://www.ficsgames.com/cgi-bin/sho...82;action=show
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Old 10-05-2010, 04:18 PM   #658
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

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Originally Posted by DON CASTI View Post
im very interested in JDouglas games and Noir_Desir post morten analysis.
I've been doing my homework (cause lately i ve been looking for lines against 1.c4) and it seems white position is bad (or at least very difficult), even after 7.Nd3. Im playing the natural move 7. ... Bf5. Now what? Ther's 3 reasonable plays for white: the unnatural Kf2, the worse e3 and Nb4 (any other black is crushing). if Nb4, then 8. ... c6 threatening d5 is at least winning the pawn back with better position. In most lines i ve seen black gets very nice advantage. Would like to hear more comments against black.
If I recall correctly, Kf2 is best. I haven't analyzed it in detail, but I didn't manage to find anything convincing in the few Blitz games I played from the position. Black can stir up some trouble in various ways but the position is not clear at all. I certainly think that there are some players who would take White's position.
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:26 PM   #659
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

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Originally Posted by DON CASTI View Post
lol, checkmated with K+B+N vs K in the wrong corner.

http://www.ficsgames.com/cgi-bin/sho...82;action=show
LOL A+
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Old 10-05-2010, 09:22 PM   #660
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

This has happened to me a few times when playing correspondence chess. I'll get an opponent that, in poker terms, I just can't get a read on. That is, even though I have days to analyze the position, my opponent ends up making a move I never even considered. I'll analyze lines that I feel are sensible to look at, feel confident that my move is good, and then BAM! Back at square one.

It's not an issue of playing strength -- the player I have this issue with now is in fact rated slightly lower than me. Typically with stronger players, I'll know what moves they're going to make, except for a few key moves, but I won't have any idea how to stop them. And once they get a better position, finding their moves is easy.

But with these other players, I just don't know. Maybe it's just a style thing, maybe I'm just not analyzing well enough (though my moves still turn out to be fine generally, even in the lines I didn't check but get forced to play). So maybe I can learn something from these players that consistently catch me off-guard, but it's tough to do. Any thoughts, or amusing and related anecdotes?
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Old 10-06-2010, 05:40 AM   #661
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

I played some stronger players (like 2250-2350 ELO) in open tournaments lately because i managed to do quite good in the first rounds. The most striking difference to my usual 2000-2100 ELO opposition was that when they made a move i didn't expect, it dawned on me that it was actually quite good and better than the reply i had counted on. If i play someone weaker than me these moves are typically as bad as they look
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:35 PM   #662
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Hi guys. I don't often visit this forum but i've been hooked on the chess for the past yr or so quite a bit. I play alot on chesscube and have a 10min rating of 1500-1600. The thing is I am completely clueless on the openings. I know the french defence quite well and if I really want to beat someone I will break out my secret weapon so to speak the thing is I find it quite boring to play.

I don't really want to learn loads and loads of different openings but I want to learn one or two common ones that end up in dynamic funs games.

When thinking of the openings i'd ideally like one that is:
-flexible, it can be used in lots of games. Relatively simple theorywise.
-dynamic, with complex positions (this is not to say I understand complex positions lol it's just I enjoy them better)
-you have a decent chance of ending up with open games (barring opponent closing the doors on you)

Thanks alot.
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:46 AM   #663
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

As white, play e4 aiming for the king's gambit, or the Albin counter-gambit (I think it's called) which is 1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 c3.

To e4 e6, playing b3 is fun to play, with simple ideas of just sacking the e4 pawn for a nicer position/ better development.

To e4 c6, well I play at your level and hardly anyone plays the Caro-Kann. If they play this, maybe just play it normal with d4 and after d5, e5, the advance variation, is popular at GM level, and Carlsen got beaten with it recently, and the games tend to be exciting. In fact, here is the game I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdCnzQ5RyFU
(and)
http://www.youtube.com/user/kingscru.../4/8G-bAMLyd5E

The idea is that black basically has something similar to a french defence, but with the bad bishop outside the pawn chain (on f5). But white can have crafty ideas of his own, and often this bishop is actually problematic for black (as in the carlsen game).

With the knight on b3, black never gets a chance to play c5, and the ideas behind the plans is what makes playing this line attractive: they're so simple! White's strategy is just to clamp down on c5, and to just dominate the game from either the centre or the kingside. Just look at white's position- it's so comfortable!

Against 1.e4 c5, play 2. d4, the morra-smith gambit. I have good results with it. It is easy and fun to play, after 2...exd4 c3. After dxc3 Nxc3, most people prefer white in this position for obvious reasons. After 2...Nf6, I think the move is e5, which is also fine for white. If black tries to complcate up the opening, you always have good resources, and no development issues.

As black, against d4, the budapest gambit is fun to play, but often complicated. The plus side is that there are loaaads of trapsthe white can fall into after either Ng4 or Ne4. For example here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tec79T6Biw

The budapest is dynamic, trappy (and not crappy), and often takes white by surprise. Also, a lot of moves are forced even out of the opening, so learing some of the "theory" is quite easy here. Tbh, I need to learn some of these openings in more depth. I know the traps, but the plans are really important, especially if your opponent avoids the traps.

Against e4...well e5 is as boring as hell, the french is tricky for black unless you're an expert...I suggest Alekheine's opening. At our level, white weakens himself by over-extending the pawns (unlike GMs who know when enough pawns is enough), so they have loads of weaknesses in the position. However, you need to know when to play what moves when, as the opening is often critical, otherwise the central avalanche can be crushing. It's better than playing e5 though, because e5 gives white the initiative, whereas Nf6 declares that it is you who is going to dictate how the opening is going to be played.

I'd suggest you avoid the Ruy Lopez, because although you get interesting positions, there is so much theory that it makes me sick. And it is hard for white to go terribly wrong out of the opening, whereas black can blunder easily without huge amounts of preperation. Same with the sicilian (don't play as black).

There's my suggested repertoire. You don't have to take any advice of course, but at our level, the main thing is to have a plan, the second min thing is early development, next is knowing all the traps, and 4th is theory.

Try out the openings: play loads, and hopefully in time you gain some points. I need to take my advice as well...sigh.

Also, just re-read your post, and you wanted to learn "one or two" openings. This is impossible. I've listed more like 7 or 8, but they're quite easy ones to learn compared to the ruy lopez or sicilian, which have huge amounts of opening theory. Hope this helps. PM me if you want to play me
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:48 PM   #664
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Thanks for such a detailed post. I think i'm going to start learning abit more about the Caro-Kann first off thanks. I don't think i've ever played it tbh.

Speaking of the gambits I enjoy playing the few moves I know in the Queens and also Kings Gambits. Maybe it would be an idea to learn more than 2/3 moves in each of them lol.

Alekhines looks really interesting too having just wikied it. Cheers. I'll pm you for crushing soon My username on chesscube is jimi1999uk if you (or anyone) wants to add me.
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:19 PM   #665
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

If you are going to play the Caro-Kann, take a look at
1. e4 c6
2. d4 d5
3. Nc3 b5!?

This was played by Gurgenidze against Tal. You won't see it at the GM level, but it is a decent move that has surprise value. I use it in blitz a lot, usually gaining a significant time advantage. I've played it twice OTB with good results. The move has merit in gaining control of the c4 square which is important in the Caro-Kann. Study several GM games to get a feel for typical piece placement and ideas. There are several common themes in the Caro-Kann, which are important to know.

The best way to find an opening that fits your style is to play all of them. It will cost you rating points in the short term, but well worth it.

Last edited by cld343; 10-07-2010 at 02:19 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:38 PM   #666
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by cld343 View Post
If you are going to play the Caro-Kann, take a look at
1. e4 c6
2. d4 d5
3. Nc3 b5!?

This was played by Gurgenidze against Tal. You won't see it at the GM level, but it is a decent move that has surprise value. I use it in blitz a lot, usually gaining a significant time advantage. I've played it twice OTB with good results. The move has merit in gaining control of the c4 square which is important in the Caro-Kann. Study several GM games to get a feel for typical piece placement and ideas. There are several common themes in the Caro-Kann, which are important to know.

The best way to find an opening that fits your style is to play all of them. It will cost you rating points in the short term, but well worth it.
Heh yea this is a fun line, often the game goes 4.a3 dxe4 5.Nxe4 Bf5 and White can't really castle long 3.Nd2 kinda ruins it though since there is no fun special line
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:42 PM   #667
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Against 3.Nd2 you can play Qa5. Also 2...Na6 (played by GM Miles in some games).
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Old 10-07-2010, 05:44 PM   #668
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

I meant playing Caro-Kann as white. As black, against e4 I suggested Alekheine's opening...caro-kann wth b5 looks fun too. I personally haven't seen it before, so it's good for a surprise weapon. Don't play b5 too much though or your opponents will be able to counter it. Learn some of the main stuff (as well) if you're going to play the Caro-Kann imo
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Old 10-08-2010, 02:04 AM   #669
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimi1999uk View Post
Hi guys. I don't often visit this forum but i've been hooked on the chess for the past yr or so quite a bit. I play alot on chesscube and have a 10min rating of 1500-1600. The thing is I am completely clueless on the openings. I know the french defence quite well and if I really want to beat someone I will break out my secret weapon so to speak the thing is I find it quite boring to play.

I don't really want to learn loads and loads of different openings but I want to learn one or two common ones that end up in dynamic funs games.

When thinking of the openings i'd ideally like one that is:
-flexible, it can be used in lots of games. Relatively simple theorywise.
-dynamic, with complex positions (this is not to say I understand complex positions lol it's just I enjoy them better)
-you have a decent chance of ending up with open games (barring opponent closing the doors on you)

Thanks alot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimi1999uk View Post
Thanks for such a detailed post. I think i'm going to start learning abit more about the Caro-Kann first off thanks. I don't think i've ever played it tbh.

Speaking of the gambits I enjoy playing the few moves I know in the Queens and also Kings Gambits. Maybe it would be an idea to learn more than 2/3 moves in each of them lol.

Alekhines looks really interesting too having just wikied it. Cheers. I'll pm you for crushing soon My username on chesscube is jimi1999uk if you (or anyone) wants to add me.
i think u want sicilian, not carokann
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:14 AM   #670
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

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i think u want sicilian, not carokann
Too much theory

Everyone's solid in sicilian anyway

Plus, I don't want to play against somethingb like the morra-smith, which occurs quite a lot in blitz
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:32 AM   #671
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

I need to figure out the idiot savant opening I managed to beat you with yesterday jewbinson, the one with the 3 pawn wedge stroming up the middle extremely early. The jimi owns opening I think I will name it Seemed fun to play but prob pretty weak as i'm giving you alot of outpost squares if my attack gets thwarted.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:12 PM   #672
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

I hate misclicking at the end of a really really long game that you have countered everything perfectly and then you misclick and leave your queen in front of his last rook and he gladly takes it and proceeds to make you wait for him to get 5 pawns to queens before he will end the cheapest game ever
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:25 PM   #673
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Resign earlier.
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Old 10-08-2010, 03:05 PM   #674
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Larry Christiansen on the ICC analysed this stunning game from the olympiad. where white sacs a bishop in the colle and its completely sound. amazing sac from an opening which appeared harmless for black.
http://www.ugra-chess.com/liveboard?gameid=1001040072
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:48 PM   #675
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Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

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Originally Posted by jimi1999uk View Post
I need to figure out the idiot savant opening I managed to beat you with yesterday jewbinson, the one with the 3 pawn wedge stroming up the middle extremely early. The jimi owns opening I think I will name it Seemed fun to play but prob pretty weak as i'm giving you alot of outpost squares if my attack gets thwarted.
Can't remember. It was probably either: French, Benoni, or Alekhine.

I've got a new line for a the Benoni which Kingscrusher has used a few times. You get really fun games from it, both sides battling over a square, and after someone wins that battle, you sort of move onto battling for another square. I'm not willing to share it though. You'll have to play me to find out .

Quote:
Larry Christiansen on the ICC analysed this stunning game from the olympiad. where white sacs a bishop in the colle and its completely sound. amazing sac from an opening which appeared harmless for black.
http://www.ugra-chess.com/liveboard?gameid=1001040072
That's just ridiculous
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