Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Chess and Other Board Games Discussion of chess and other board game strategy.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-12-2015, 02:58 AM   #5551
A-Rod's Cousin
banned
 
A-Rod's Cousin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michelle Wie=the next Michelle Wie.
Posts: 37,168
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

That's exactly what I expected, too.
A-Rod's Cousin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 04:18 AM   #5552
Judit Bowlgar
centurion
 
Judit Bowlgar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 104
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

lol aiml

stop being such a chihuahua
Judit Bowlgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 01:20 PM   #5553
coon74
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,694
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Rod's Cousin View Post
That's exactly what I expected, too.
I expected that in disbelief for a few seconds (knowing how CE hates cheating) before I realised that the sentence could be understood differently.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 02:46 PM   #5554
Rei Ayanami
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Rei Ayanami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,695
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Next week . . .

Rei: Chessexplained points to a sample table covered in ham cubes and says, "I can just take that".

Someone: HEY I EXPECTED CE TO BE COVERED IN HAM CUBES.
Rei Ayanami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 03:57 PM   #5555
A-Rod's Cousin
banned
 
A-Rod's Cousin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michelle Wie=the next Michelle Wie.
Posts: 37,168
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

We love you, Rei
A-Rod's Cousin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2015, 04:33 PM   #5556
JSLigon
journeyman
 
JSLigon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 388
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Of course the chess cheat steals unattended tables.

Spoiler:
JSLigon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2015, 11:07 AM   #5557
loafes
grinder
 
loafes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 515
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

<html>
<body>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0f64e1UM-Jg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
</body>
</html>

Last edited by loafes; 09-17-2015 at 11:15 AM.
loafes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 04:45 PM   #5558
Rei Ayanami
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Rei Ayanami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,695
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comme...ve_23_in_loss/

Interesting discussion on Reddit. Good example of how engines can be wrong.
Rei Ayanami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2015, 04:24 PM   #5559
Mayo
4l Mod of the Year
 
Mayo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: RIP dangeraw
Posts: 50,973
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

From Humans of New York:



“Two days ago at school we learned how to play a game called chest. You have horses and pawns and bishops and castles, and you’re supposed to steal other peoples’ places by squirting your pawn diagonal and eating their pieces. If anyone else wants to learn chest, I’ll teach them.”
Mayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2015, 06:54 PM   #5560
Rei Ayanami
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Rei Ayanami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,695
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

chessexplained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfiMvMfwVRA#t=24m09s
Rei Ayanami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2015, 02:27 PM   #5561
The Yugoslavian
STTF HUC II Winner
 
The Yugoslavian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 24,799
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Wesley So is playing for the MN Blizzard tonight and I may go and watch for a bit live in-person. He is playing Akobian so if I do go I will see if Wesley wrote any interesting notes to himself before the game. I hope there are some choice ones pinned on the wall next to where they're playing with motivational messages such as, "suck it Akobian" or "Akobian can only win by forfeit."
The Yugoslavian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 12:58 AM   #5562
A-Rod's Cousin
banned
 
A-Rod's Cousin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michelle Wie=the next Michelle Wie.
Posts: 37,168
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

The game of the day at chessgames is kasparov v seirawan in which seirawan says he wished he'd punched kasparov in the face. Lol. Can't even imagine him getting that angry.
A-Rod's Cousin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 03:24 AM   #5563
A-Rod's Cousin
banned
 
A-Rod's Cousin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michelle Wie=the next Michelle Wie.
Posts: 37,168
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

I don't understand why the level 4 (1000) computer on chess.Com phone app beats me like 80% of the time but their next weakest machine (800) plays like an absolute imbecile and I beat it every time even while dicking around like having my first 15 or so moves be arbitrary pawn moves. To me it really doesn't seem like a 200 point difference between the two. And I wish they'd add something in between.
A-Rod's Cousin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 10:25 AM   #5564
The Yugoslavian
STTF HUC II Winner
 
The Yugoslavian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 24,799
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Rod's Cousin View Post
The game of the day at chessgames is kasparov v seirawan in which seirawan says he wished he'd punched kasparov in the face. Lol. Can't even imagine him getting that angry.
Wow, neither can I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Rod's Cousin View Post
I don't understand why the level 4 (1000) computer on chess.Com phone app beats me like 80% of the time but their next weakest machine (800) plays like an absolute imbecile and I beat it every time even while dicking around like having my first 15 or so moves be arbitrary pawn moves. To me it really doesn't seem like a 200 point difference between the two. And I wish they'd add something in between.
Does level 4 beat you b/c you don't hunker down and focus harder? It seems you are stronger than 1000 on every type of chess on chess.com.
The Yugoslavian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 10:46 AM   #5565
A-Rod's Cousin
banned
 
A-Rod's Cousin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michelle Wie=the next Michelle Wie.
Posts: 37,168
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

No I try as hard as I can and don't do my usual ill-advised sacs. I swear it makes moves that are much better than what I typically see in any other game. It just feels way, way, way stronger than the 800. It's annoying bc I'd like to practice against the comp but don't want to download playmagnus again. I honestly wonder if it is miscalibrated (or the 800 maybe is way worse than it is supposed to be)
A-Rod's Cousin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 10:56 AM   #5566
The Yugoslavian
STTF HUC II Winner
 
The Yugoslavian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 24,799
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Sounds like it very well could be miscalibrated.
The Yugoslavian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 11:24 AM   #5567
The Yugoslavian
STTF HUC II Winner
 
The Yugoslavian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 24,799
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Pretty quiet this morning. I'm sure it's because everyone is holding their breath eagerly awaiting a trip report. So...I am going to give the people what they want!

I was busy until later in the evening but tried following the games as best I could via YouTube. It appeared to me board 3 was in the most trouble but shortly after I showed up he secured a draw which I thought seemed like a very good result.

The other 3 games were quite interesting:

[actual content]

Board 1
So's game seemed quite drawish when I showed up and it even appeared he was repeating moves. He clearly had whatever edge there was to be had in the position. I was very glad he opted to break through and make things quite dicey, sacrificing a pawn. At that point I had absolutely no clue wtf was going on in the game. Here is the position after he decides to make something happen:



This game ended in a draw and while I was trying to pay attention to it I would be completely lying if I said I had almost any idea of wtf was going on. It seems So was definitively worse at several points after that but still managed to draw anyway. They were both playing on increment so, I mean, anything could have happened I guess. I definitely appreciated that he made it interesting when he very easily could have drawn before making that pawn break.

I really was hoping Wesley would find a win, I wanted Akobian to go down and it also looked like we'd need it. I cannot tell if he was paying much attention to the other games and just went for a draw after realizing we were about to lose on 2 boards or not.

Board 2
John Bartholomew made an interesting choice/plan earlier on in the middlegame by intentionally planting a pawn on e5. I didn't really like his position later on and he was burning a lot of clock. I think he had some interesting ideas he didn't have time to calculate and didn't go for. Until both he and his opponent were basically playing in increment and he went for what I felt was a very dicey move in this position:



Then later on in this position I felt there was a move that held, which to me looked the only move that looked viable to me to draw.



He could have played Kf7 here or after playing e7 but instead went with e7 then Kxh5 and ended up losing.

I mean, there were mistakes made near the end by both sides but I feel relatively proud that I saw that OTB while watching and the computer says it's right, .

Board 4
Our player was down a pawn, and, imo, clearly losing when I got there live. However he did seem to play some tricky stuff and had set up a nice sacrifice in this position:



The opponent didn't notice it and played Nf6, which does appear to lose. At the time I thought Nxb5 would only draw but apparently it's a win. However, our player didn't play Ke2 after black advanced his pawns, which seems to be a draw again and then in this position made what I thought was a clear mistake (and quite weird move):



He played Ne2 but it seems like b5 should hold a draw since black is forced to play Kd4 and then both sides queen, white with an extra pawn and black with the knight. The entire thing was much more complex than I'm making it out to be but I again was a bit stoked I saw the Nxb5 idea in the first place, saw Ke2 afterwards was better and then also saw b5 would save the game. I'm sure I would have lost the game in a bunch of different ways earlier, but still .

[/actual content]

Everyone playing was very quiet, except So who had a wooden board in front of him (not uncommon) but kept moving the pieces quite loudly (as it if was a blitz game). He also was very actively sitting in his seat, with it tipping every which way. I also noticed him moving pieces on the board during his opponent's move, which I'm not sure is really kosher/allowed. He was not doing it to analyze for any sort of advantage. He was sometimes replaying the move just played, like it would help him feel the flow of the game better or something. Maybe just a random habit. He didn't write anything down the entire time, which is a good sign for the future, .

I was also impressed with how nice his "entourage" seemed which consisted of Lotis Key (of course), another woman who I'm going to guess is related to her and part of his adopted family and his g/f. I didn't realize he had a g/f but she is in pictures on his facebook of all his recent tournaments. She was cute and seemed really nice, spending the entire time coloring in an adult coloring book. Really beautiful stuff, actually. maybe it wasn't a coloring book at all and she had sketched images and then was coloring them in. I don't know but she had 234234324 colored pens spread out and was pretty into it. I think my wife would like that. Perhaps when I am a 2700 GM she can do that while watching me play in some rinky dink chess club in Midwest America.

After the game I made a point to shake everyone's hand as they all had fought very hard. I thanked Wesley for an interesting game and he thanked me for coming and watching. It seems like a normal thing to say but somehow the way he said it ended up surprising me, like he actually was thankful for it.

I talked with John for a bit and it turns out he is a lurker here! As I described my chess history a bit he actually said "oh, are you the guy with the log on 2p2?" I had to go back and check but I never sent him a link to my log so that was pretty cool! I am that one guy with a log, . He didn't have a 2p2 name unfortunately. After he correctly guessed who I was I was hoping for some dramatic reveal that he is Rei or something like that, .

Surprising no one, John is possibly even nicer in-person than he seems in his videos. Just a humble and cool guy. He is definitely about the people, having no issue answering some questions I had and taking the time to chat even though it must be a bit weird since I knew so much about him from his videos — I'm not sure there is any way to not come off slightly stalkerish.

There is some small chance he reads this so just in case, keep up the great work John!
The Yugoslavian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 11:43 AM   #5568
A-Rod's Cousin
banned
 
A-Rod's Cousin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michelle Wie=the next Michelle Wie.
Posts: 37,168
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

That's a pretty cool TR. Also neat to hear IM Bartholomew lurks.
A-Rod's Cousin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 11:49 AM   #5569
The Yugoslavian
STTF HUC II Winner
 
The Yugoslavian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 24,799
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***



It honestly felt somewhat surreal to just show up and watch a super elite GM playing at the chess club on a Tuesday evening. I mean, I never thought that would ever be a real thing living in MN (or in the US, ldo) when I played chess back in the day. At the time I don't even think MN had any active GMs but right now it can field a pretty damn strong team:

GM Wesley So
GM Mauricio Flores (at the U for grad school)
IM John Bartholomew
IM Sean Nagle

Those are two very strong IMs to complement a GM and a super-super GM. And we have another IM, Andrew Tang, who is in HS I believe and very active, so who knows how good he'll be.
The Yugoslavian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 11:57 AM   #5570
JSLigon
journeyman
 
JSLigon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 388
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Rod's Cousin View Post
No I try as hard as I can and don't do my usual ill-advised sacs. I swear it makes moves that are much better than what I typically see in any other game. It just feels way, way, way stronger than the 800. It's annoying bc I'd like to practice against the comp but don't want to download playmagnus again. I honestly wonder if it is miscalibrated (or the 800 maybe is way worse than it is supposed to be)
On my chess.com app, which is the iOS version, the computer difficulty levels are numbered 1-10 but I don't see the ratings you mentioned. Then for some reason the browser version that runs on Java uses a different system and has levels Beginner, Easy, Medium, Hard, Expert with associated ratings 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 2000. In any case I wouldn't trust the ratings.

From a programming standpoint there's no reason they couldn't have a continuous distribution of levels (using whatever arbitrary rating system they want). Keep running the search until a given number of nodes have been examined would be one way to do it. By upping the node limit it would make slightly better moves on average. 10 levels isn't awful, but being able to enter in whatever rating number you want (even if not properly calibrated) would be better. I have faith that you'll eventually be beating the crap out of level 4 though.
JSLigon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 02:20 PM   #5571
A-Rod's Cousin
banned
 
A-Rod's Cousin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michelle Wie=the next Michelle Wie.
Posts: 37,168
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Yes it's quite confusing how their website is different from their phone app and to make things more confusing I believe they have two different phone apps all I know is its called level 4 ( 1000).

Yugo that is cool. I grew up in St Louis and the idea that I could go watch the sinquefield cup if I still lived there is a bit unnerving.
A-Rod's Cousin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 03:38 PM   #5572
The Yugoslavian
STTF HUC II Winner
 
The Yugoslavian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 24,799
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

I might try to go to the Sinquefield cup next year. I didn't even think about it but it's within driving distance (a days drive, lol) from me, which makes it very possible to go for a weekend or taking a couple of days off and not worry about breaking the bank. I will have a baby at that point, though, so I think the main goal should just be to still be interested in chess, .
The Yugoslavian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 06:06 PM   #5573
loafes
grinder
 
loafes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 515
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

wait, john lurks here?

during his last stream he mentioned that he knows a few chess players who've done well in poker, I wonder if he was referring to anuone on 2p2
loafes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 07:47 PM   #5574
The Moocher
Ottermandias
 
The Moocher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: on the couch
Posts: 22,861
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

A 2+2 buddy of mine, gambit, told me about the 'chessbrahs' stream on Twitch so I Followed them last week and saw they were live last night. Clicked on the stream and it turned out that our very own curtainz was hosting a show on their channel that covered these US League matches.

I'd never heard of the competition before but it was some good entertainment. Not sure if it's a regular thing or how that competition works but I'd def watch again
The Moocher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2015, 08:48 PM   #5575
coon74
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,694
Re: *** Chess Low Content Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Rod's Cousin View Post
I don't understand why the level 4 (1000) computer on chess.Com phone app beats me like 80% of the time but their next weakest machine (800) plays like an absolute imbecile and I beat it every time even while dicking around like having my first 15 or so moves be arbitrary pawn moves. To me it really doesn't seem like a 200 point difference between the two. And I wish they'd add something in between.
I suspect that about the only parameters that are changed to make the engine weaker are 1) the search depth, 2) the frequency of random piece sacrifices and 3) the overvaluation of passed pawns when the human has more pieces. Even despite 2) and 3), the comp can beat a human who's higher rated in blitz because it never falls behind on the clock and nevertheless perfectly sees forks, hanging pieces and forced mates, which all require a depth of only a few moves to spot, whereas a human doesn't always see the tactics.

I don't know what blitz time control the phone version of the comp plays at, but that the browser version now plays 3+2 is a blessing because it no longer succeeds at playing like a patzer version of Olegas and beating humans on pure time.

Edit: if you're interested in just getting rating points or confidence, the best way to outplay the chess.com comp imo is to find its opening leaks by playing unusual but still solid moves. E.g. it usually plays some bogus vs 1. Nf3. Or actually, there are several instances of the 'medium' comp that change each other in the pool, and each of the instances has a specific small and thus leaky opening library. Reviewing my games vs the comp, I can find some total nonsense like 1. e4 Nf6 2. f3?!, 1. Nf3 e6 2. d4 Qf6?! 3. e4 c5 or even 1. Nf3 Nc6?! 2. d4 Nf6?! 3. d5 Nb4 4. c4* Ne4 5. a3 e6? And the same instance usually plays almost all the same poor opening moves, with only minor deviations.

* 4. a3 would be a cute defence vs a human because Black has to go Na6, otherwise 4... Nbxd5? 5. c4 Nb6 6. c5 Nbd5 7. e4 wins a piece. However, we don't need to play GTO vs a fishy comp.

Last edited by coon74; 09-30-2015 at 09:17 PM. Reason: anti-computer lines added
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online