2014 Sinquefield Cup - Page 5 - Chess and Board Game Strategy

The problem is that it's blitz for MVL but rapid for Caruana now. MVL has tied a noose for his own king by thinking for too long.

After Fabiano has found the 23... b6, it's pretty much 0-1 and 7/7

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09-03-2014 , 06:46 PM

#102

EGarrett

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,562

Unbelievable. So glad I got to see the handshake "live" via stream and be in the chessbomb chat room when it happened.

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09-03-2014 , 06:49 PM

#103

vixticator

clutch

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 117,339

Caruana > Stockfish ldo

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09-03-2014 , 06:52 PM

#104

RoundTower

ɹǝʍoʇpunoɹ

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,563

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkD

So... what level of tactic do you guys think Fabiano's Bxe6 was? Would a 1500 rated player see it? I think not... 1800? 2000? 2200? 2400? I certainly can't see all of the continuations after the move, but I would look at it because of Rf3... but there are a lot of lines...

It's a bit unfortunate in the coverage that Ashley saw it way earlier with the help of computer analysis as it would have been interesting to see if Yasser and Jen saw it on the board in the position without the assistance.

I don't think it's a tough tactic to "see", White gets two pawns for a piece and gets at least a couple of checks. The tough part is determining that it is the best move. For example, it's hard to see that 27. Qh6! is almost the only winning move. I'm sure that Topalov considered 24. Bxe6; maybe he only thought about follow ups like 27. Nxc5?! Nd4! when he would have a chance in the complications. Black also has other plausible 24th moves.

I'd be disappointed if a 1700 student didn't consider Bxe6 as a possibility. But they should also consider it on moves 21, 22 and 23, when it's clearly less forcing, and the computer says it doesn't work.

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09-03-2014 , 06:54 PM

#105

RoundTower

ɹǝʍoʇpunoɹ

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,563

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixticator

Caruana > Stockfish ldo

I was thinking about this, how likely is it that Stockfish goes 7-0 against this field? I think it has an excellent chance if the players don't know they are playing Stockfish.

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09-03-2014 , 07:28 PM

#106

EvilSteve

Midlife Crisis

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 13,195

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoundTower

the players don't know they are playing Stockfish.

They should be starting to catch on by now though.

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09-03-2014 , 07:41 PM

#107

All-inMcLovin

Wholesome Mod

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 49,614

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilSteve

They should be starting to catch on by now though.

LOL

Re: Bxe6 vs Topalov

Chess advice I read from Larry Christiansen: Examine every forcing move, every check and capture.

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09-03-2014 , 08:03 PM

#108

coon74

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 10,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoundTower

I was thinking about this, how likely is it that Stockfish goes 7-0 against this field? I think it has an excellent chance if the players don't know they are playing Stockfish.

Even if they knew, it would sweep in 7-0 more often that not.

The classical time control allows for a tremendous calculation depth for SF. If you were running it during the game, in addition to looking up the results of its 30-second thought posted on Chessbomb, you could see how much more accurate the desktop instance of SF was.

Make the game bullet, and SF will start making positional mistakes, especially in the endgame, that a human GM would avoid due to experience and common sense.

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09-03-2014 , 08:11 PM

#109

rooooktaker

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 273

anybody got the odds on tomorrow's match? Should Caruana be the favorite,? especially as white!

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09-03-2014 , 08:19 PM

#110

coon74

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Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 10,684

I think it will be a draw. Fabiano is gonna play solid unambitious chess, and Magnus has a mental game strong enough to avoid self-destruction, but failed to convert the endgame vs MVL, so seems not precise enough to win.

The draw will be absolutely sufficient for Caruana, he'll both secure the tourney win and break Aronian's high point.

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09-03-2014 , 08:27 PM

#111

Rei Ayanami

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Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 11,685

SF's real-time analysis is quite unreliable, which is why it's hilariously pathetic when kibitzers go nuts over a huge swing in the game eval that turns out to be a comp misstep. Need to find a way to hide evals/analysis on Chessdom.

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09-04-2014 , 04:52 AM

#112

EGarrett

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,562

Quote:

Originally Posted by coon74

Magnus has said already that it's a big game for him. The proverbial irresistible force meeting the immovable object.

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09-04-2014 , 06:53 AM

#113

coon74

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Even though it's a big game, he can no longer afford things like THE 15. Bxf7 (one of the most influential wrong moves in chess history, along with Karpov's 33. Rxd1? played instead of 33. a6! in time trouble in game 41 of his first match with Kasparov that was Karpov's biggest chance to win the match).

Last edited by coon74; 09-04-2014 at 07:11 AM. Reason: links to C-C and K-K games added

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09-04-2014 , 02:56 PM

#114

Fabian

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Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 9,201

Tuned in to the live coverage, holy **** it's insufferable. Why are americans so terrible at covering sports? Rage.

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09-04-2014 , 02:58 PM

#115

All-inMcLovin

Wholesome Mod

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 49,614

I got Caruana playing super solid, Carlsen trying to mix it up and Caruana winning

#BOOKIT

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09-04-2014 , 03:02 PM

#116

TimTimSalabim

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This could be an epic match

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09-04-2014 , 03:04 PM

#117

feedmykids2

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,527

Sicillian on the board, Magnus ready to fight

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09-04-2014 , 03:09 PM

#118

BobJoeJim

Tournament Director

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,200

Why is Caruana thinking? He can't have a novelty at move 7 of the accelerated dragon, can he? But he has to be familiar with the main lines in this common position, right?

Edit: I guess "main lines" contain a variety of options here, so it's worth taking some time to pick one...

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09-04-2014 , 03:10 PM

#119

coon74

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Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 10,684

Fabiano is gonna teach me how to play the White side of the Maroczy Bind

(and Magnus - how to play the Black side of the Hyper Dragon - I can run into such positions with both colours in my games).

He's looking like he's out of prep already at move 7, though

(BJJ, I think he knows the book, but he's wondering if Magnus has prepared some sideline.)

Edit: his 7. f3 is quite standard (but usually delayed) in the Maroczy Bind, as well as 7. Nc2 (also std, but usually played later too). DBs say they score 60%+, but I guess that DBs are 'lying' here - these are just irregular move orders that will usually transpose to the main line.

Last edited by coon74; 09-04-2014 at 03:23 PM.

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09-04-2014 , 03:18 PM

#120

buffyslayer1

Coach MTT

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,553

Where are you guys watching the live stream?

Is there one with live GM commentary as well. I found chessbomb but just random kibbitzers there

thx in advance

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09-04-2014 , 03:19 PM

#121

BobJoeJim

Tournament Director

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,200

http://uschesschamps.com/live

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09-04-2014 , 03:24 PM

#122

BobJoeJim

Tournament Director

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,200

I think there's a nice symmetry in the fact that the position on board after 10. Qd2 between Caruana and Carlsen also showed up in the 1971 Candidates Final between Petrosian and Fischer (Fischer had black, and the game was drawn). I say "nice symmetry" because Fischer's 20-0 streak through that Candidates Cycle is one of the most interesting comparisons (imo) to Caruana's 7-0.

It would be even nicer if this postition were from one of Fischer's wins in that streak. And nicest still if this position were from the game where Petrosian finally ended the streak.

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09-04-2014 , 03:24 PM

#123

buffyslayer1

Coach MTT

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobJoeJim

http://uschesschamps.com/live

Thx mate

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09-04-2014 , 03:39 PM

#124

coon74

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Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 10,684

Chessbase shows that Caruana's 10. b3 scores poorer (53%) than 10. Na4 (70%; but the samples are lol small - 28 and 25 games). I think the reason is that 10... a4 is now possible, apparently due to 11. Nxa4? Nxe4.

So now, as Magnus has indeed played 10... a4, Fab has to reply by 11. b4 (after 11. bxa4, that pawn is regained soon anyway).

I like Carlsen's early Q-side minority attack from the theoretical viewpoint

I mean, Black is doing at least something active.

Last edited by coon74; 09-04-2014 at 03:48 PM.