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07-21-2010 , 07:57 AM
#1
RealNick
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Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 217


3pt match, I'm 1 away, opponent is 2 away. From an online freeroll tourney. Gnu set to world class, 2-ply evaluation.

Can anyone explain to me why Gnu has this marked as a pass?
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07-21-2010 , 09:39 AM
#2
Robertie
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Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealNick

3pt match, I'm 1 away, opponent is 2 away. From an online freeroll tourney. Gnu set to world class, 2-ply evaluation.

Can anyone explain to me why Gnu has this marked as a pass?
Because of the match score. Obviously it's not a double and a trivially easy take in a cash game, but here the match score changes everything.

If you take this, you're playing this game for the match. Your opponent is on roll, so he's a small favorite in the game, and hence a small favorite to win the match (assuming equal players).

If you drop this, you play the next game for the match. Since that game hasn't started, you're 50-50 to win.

Take = slight underdog in the match.

Drop = 50-50.

So you drop. Match play is full of little weirdnesses like this.
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07-21-2010 , 09:46 AM
#3
tetron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealNick
[
3pt match, I'm 1 away, opponent is 2 away. From an online freeroll tourney. Gnu set to world class, 2-ply evaluation.
Can anyone explain to me why Gnu has this marked as a pass?
the tactical situation means that if the position is worse than your chances of winning this game are less than the next game then the correct move is to pass.

This is a very close position, and I don't see any timing issues so I imagine it comes down to the alternaring die rolls gives your opponent a very small edge over the fresh game.

It is possible that it is too close for a computer to be accurate but a pass is clearly a reasonable move.
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07-21-2010 , 06:31 PM
#4
plm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetron
This is a very close position, and I don't see any timing issues so I imagine it comes down to the alternaring die rolls gives your opponent a very small edge over the fresh game.
This is not close. The position may look almost symmetrical, but being on roll gives the opponent a substantial edge. The screen shot says 52%/48%. This is certainly plausible and means a clear advantage.

If you didn't win the opening roll, you have to roll pretty well at your turn to be able to take (a hit, a working doublet, something like that). More or less equalizing the checkers' position is far from enough.
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07-22-2010 , 01:58 PM
#5
tetron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plm
This is not close. The position may look almost symmetrical, but being on roll gives the opponent a substantial edge. The screen shot says 52%/48%. This is certainly plausible and means a clear advantage.
I had not read the screen shot to see GNU's rating. (Bad eyes)

I am not familiar with GNU's algorithm and I thought that there could have been a timing issue to do with number of rolls to finish, which would make it closer than 52%

I was assuming that the next game GNU thinks it would be starting with marginally above 50%.

If GNU does rate the first game at 52% and the fresh game at 50-50. Then its decision to pass must be wrong! Why?

Some programs display position scores that differ from the internal evaluation, I would not have expected a BG game to do this.
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07-22-2010 , 02:22 PM
#6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetron
If GNU does rate the first game at 52% and the fresh game at 50-50. Then its decision to pass must be wrong! Why?
Gnu is doubling as the trailer and think that it wins 52%.
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07-22-2010 , 04:01 PM
#7
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TomCowley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertie
Because of the match score. Obviously it's not a double and a trivially easy take in a cash game, but here the match score changes everything.
Not that it matters to the question in the OP, but it's a pretty solid beaver in a cash game. Not that anybody who isn't either totally ******ed or on complete monkeytilt would ever double this in a cash game.
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07-22-2010 , 04:31 PM
#8
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Bjornar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCowley
Not that it matters to the question in the OP, but it's a pretty solid beaver in a cash game. Not that anybody who isn't either totally ******ed or on complete monkeytilt would ever double this in a cash game.
Or if you just want to play for 8-16 or more. There are people out there that just gambles like this.
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