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Sites shouldn't provide the pip count.

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03-23-2023 , 12:20 PM

Bradspelarn

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 5

Sites shouldn't provide you with the pip count. For example, if you play on Backgammon Galaxy or some other site, it will often tell you the pip count.

In real life, when you play a real game of Backgammon, for example in the World Series of Backgammon, then you don't have this luxury. You'll have to mentally calculate the pip count yourself. This adds an extra dimension to the game.

Do you think that the sites should provide us with the pip count?

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03-23-2023 , 02:39 PM

EdwardCollins

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 65

Sites (and user interfaces, which is really what we are talking about) should give the user the option to have the count displayed or not.

I agree that if a player chooses not to see the pip count, then it should not be displayed.

And no, covering up the portion of the screen with a piece of tape is not acceptable.

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03-23-2023 , 02:52 PM

Bradspelarn

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 5

What if there was an alternative, that when you create a game, you could choose to not display the pip count for any of the players?

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03-23-2023 , 05:25 PM

cornelius1

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 108

I understand your point. But turning off the pip count would be very tiresome for the player counting and very boring for the other player waiting. The clock would have to run much much slower. Backgammon would be less enjoyable that way. Therefore I think this will never be implemented.

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03-23-2023 , 09:33 PM

stremba70

adept

Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 1,118

IMO pip count in backgammon is much like pot size and stack sizes in poker. It’s information that is readily available to players, but in live play requires some work to figure out. In poker all online sites provide this information automatically; in live games players must figure it out. It is just conventional that the situation in live play is different from online and I suspect most online bg players expect pipcount to be displayed.

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03-24-2023 , 05:56 AM

cornelius1

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 108

If the pipcount would miss completely or even only when the opponent chooses that option there would be a shitstorm tsunami in the social media and here there would be soon a thread with the title: What is the best site for playing with pipcount?

Last edited by cornelius1; 03-24-2023 at 06:02 AM.

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03-24-2023 , 12:24 PM

Bradspelarn

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by stremba70

So perhaps we should see it as two different games? Live backgammon and online backgammon? These differ a little bit. Like on chess.com which provides the player with legal moves. This is by the way common in online backgammon as well and it is also an interesting discussion!

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03-24-2023 , 12:35 PM

Bradspelarn

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelius1

Well, I don't really buy the argument that the clock would have to run much slower. It does not have to run slower in live games either. It is up to the players to approximate the pip-count as good as possible during the limited amount of time. It is part of the game. If there is little time, moves might be bad, but the same goes for the opponent. If you train your ability to do fast approximations, you might gain an advantage. You will understand the theory behind pip-count, as well as the theory around implied odds in poker for example. But there you can't calculate exact odds. It's the same thing.

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03-24-2023 , 06:15 PM

Bradspelarn

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by stremba70

You have a good point here when you compare it to poker. But I also think that one difference is that in live poker, you could say "How much is in that stack?" or "How much is now in the pot?", and you will get an answer. Perhaps it is illegal not to provide you with an answer, I don't know. With the pip count in live backgammon, you never have any "right" to get that information. This is a difference I believe.

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03-24-2023 , 10:39 PM

#10

RolldUpTrips

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,334

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradspelarn

Nobody is obligated to count their stack in poker and the dealer may not tell you the size of the pot unless you're playing PL

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03-28-2023 , 10:18 AM

#11

stremba70

adept

Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 1,118

That is correct. In live poker if you ask someone their stack size, you will almost certainly not get an answer. The best you will get is that the player you ask will move his hands and arms away from his stack to give you a clear view. That was my point - this is standard in live play, but online it is completely different. Online you see the exact amount of all players’ stacks.

The only time in live play you will ever get an answer when asking how large a stack is would be when a player goes all in. You are always entitled to know the amount of any bet you are facing.

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