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10-17-2012 , 11:50 PM
Here is a question that I find myself asking all the time in a money game when my opponent has doubled me and I own the cube. Is it correct for me to redouble as soon as I become a favorite to win the match 51% or greater? The reason I ask is because if I redouble the cube is dead and my opponent does not get the cube back. Also, If this were a 2 point match, it would be correct for me to double as soon as I'm a favorite ... does the same apply in the above money game situation?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by digi; 10-17-2012 at 11:59 PM.
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10-18-2012 , 12:52 PM
Instead of focusing on the mimimal win percentage you need in order to offer a double, you should be thinnking about your opponent's take point. With a dead cube, and no gammon possibility, he will be taking so long as his win percentage is 25% or higher.

When you have few or no market losers, you have no need to double. Your opponent will be taking on the next turn anyway.
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10-19-2012 , 12:21 AM
Thx Mike, I see what you mean but isn't this like money play in poker ... when I'm the favorite don't I want to get all my money in? Also, what's the difference between this and a 2 point match where it's correct to double as soon as you have the edge, according to the Snowie anyway?
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10-19-2012 , 01:29 AM
just calculate
i.e.: you are in 100 games 51% favorite and turn the cube from 2to4
you are " 75 % favorite "
also u must have the rake in mind (sounds like bwin)
and the oponent (if bwin-maybe bot)
btw, the bots are not able to calculate right actions with table stake
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10-19-2012 , 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by digi
Thx Mike, I see what you mean but isn't this like money play in poker ... when I'm the favorite don't I want to get all my money in? Also, what's the difference between this and a 2 point match where it's correct to double as soon as you have the edge, according to the Snowie anyway?
Against an opponent who plays perfectly, your strategy may be just as good as the one I suggest. When the game turns, a perfect opponent will be sure to get his cube in while you are still taking. He will, that is, unless he goes from "not good enough" to "double-pass" in one roll.

Against real opponents, there is also the possibility of a cube error. By deferring your double (while being careful not to lose your market), you will still win with the cube at 4. When you lose, however, you may find that you are losing only 2 points when the game turns, and your opponent doubles too late.

It is also possible that a real opponent will drop a cube he should be taking, and thereby cede equity to you (even though his pass would mean that you only win 2 points). When you double early, this sort of error is highly unlikely.

Incidentally, the strategy I describe is used by some expert and world class players at 2-away, 2-away.

Last edited by Taper_Mike; 10-19-2012 at 03:42 AM.
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10-19-2012 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taper_Mike
When the game turns, a perfect opponent will be sure to get his cube in while you are still taking. He will, that is, unless he goes from "not good enough" to "double-pass" in one roll.
Thanks again for the input Mike. I'm a little confused by the above ... my opponent cannot redouble me because I own the cube and if and when I double the cube is dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taper_Mike
[INDENT]Against real opponents, there is also the possibility of a cube error. By deferring your double (while being careful not to lose your market), you will still win with the cube at 4. When you lose, however, you may find that you are losing only 2 points when the game turns, and your opponent doubles too late.

It is also possible that a real opponent will drop a cube he should be taking, and thereby cede equity to you (even though his pass would mean that you only win 2 points). When you double early, this sort of error is highly unlikely./INDENT]
So, basically, I'm giving up some equity by doubling too early? What is the optimal time to double ... specifically what winning %? Can I double a little sooner than normal because the cube is dead if I redouble?
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10-19-2012 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by digi
Thanks again for the input Mike. I'm a little confused by the above ... my opponent cannot redouble me because I own the cube and if and when I double the cube is dead.
Come to think of it, I am confused, too! I guess I was thinking about the 2-away, 2-away where both players have access to the cube.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digi
So, basically, I'm giving up some equity by doubling too early? What is the optimal time to double ... specifically what winning %? Can I double a little sooner than normal because the cube is dead if I redouble?
I can't really help you here. Volatility and market losers mean that every position must be evaluated on its own. In a smoothly changing, non-volatile situation, I would be aiming for 72% to 73%.
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