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Old 01-06-2017, 04:44 AM   #1
jtolpin
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Are online backgammon games rigged?

Hi! Inexperienced newbie post.

I like backgammon. I've been playing online. Im not good. Admitted. I know the basics, etc.... But the more I play online, I see lots of bad luck for me, and good rolls for the opponent.

Sure, sometimes I do have quick games on my side, but few and far between.

Are online games rigged? Are the dice rigged? I understand enough to know that if I am bad, and play bad, the rolls will look bad for me, and the opponent could have a better outcome.

I've read online, people saying the programming cannot be rigged, and I understand frustrations, but boy - when you are playing a game, and see the outcomes....

Thanks!
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:52 PM   #2
jtolpin
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

ok. No one answered. A lot of view though.

so, am I allowed to mention sites?

On FB, backgammon - lord of the board.... I think Ive had enough playing it. Ive tried for afew weeks.

No. Im not very good, and need to read a little bit. But the games have grown less and less fun. I lose 9/10 of the time, and the majority of the time, the opponents rolls are... what do you call them? Kill shots?

Doubles all over the place for opponents, and most of my opponents seem like 'apple' or 'robot' and to me, that means robot, and probablhy not making careless mistakes.... and going out 100 moves ahead.

So, no. Its not fun. What other web sites are out there, that I can play on, and not feel like Im kinda stupid at the game.
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:35 PM   #3
Rick Gardner
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Try the backgammon nj app. Also the XG.
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Old 01-08-2017, 06:36 AM   #4
Trunky
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

There is more to backgammon than the luck of the dice and moving your checkers around the board. It take most people a lot of time and study to get really good at the game. You said you are a newbie. If you were taking up golf, you wouldn't complain that you lost to someone with 5 years regular play behind them. That is because you can see the skill the other person has developed through practice. It's the same with backgammon. It is a game of skill and experience. You probably can't see it because of the luck factor.

As you become better you will win more and other people will be saying that you're the lucky player. A good starting place is right here. Just do a search for 'Problem of the Week' by Robertie. Really own the knowledge in these lessons and you'll be on the way being a skilful player.
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:22 AM   #5
jtolpin
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

thanks! appreciated!
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:02 PM   #6
2pairsof2s
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

If I win, then no. If you win, then yes.

Sorry, I thought this was a Pokerstars thread.

PS> try Playok.com. It's a free site, no deposits or gambling, easy game operation and seems to have a fair RNG.
Mods, I have no interest in the site, I just play there. If I can't say that please delete and I'm sorry.

Last edited by 2pairsof2s; 01-08-2017 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 01-08-2017, 06:15 PM   #7
jtolpin
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Im still trying to figure out if LOTB - on FB is rigged or not. It just 'seems' rigged, like the robots I play get all the right shots, but perhaps they get the right shots, because they are lined up the right way.
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:09 PM   #8
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Most likely they're putting their checkers in better positions, so more rolls are good for them, and fewer rolls are good for you.

If it helps, all beginners feel this way when they're playing good players.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:45 AM   #9
bleep69
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

I often still feel this way. It is a tough game to master.
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Old 01-10-2017, 05:23 AM   #10
jtolpin
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Every time I play the robot (or computer, I guess), I get my ass kicked, and makes me not want to play the game on their site. When I play a person, its more fun, of course.

But Im SURE, when playing the computer, they know more than I about the game we're in, going forward, and plans accordingly.

I do feel discouraged playing there. You get X coins, and I usually lose all mine before the end of day - lol.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:30 AM   #11
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

It might help to look at things from a slightly different perspective.

You're just starting out in backgammon. Let's assume that the bot you're playing against is pretty strong, perhaps as good as a world-class player, or maybe even better. (I don't know your site, so I can't say for sure.)

If you, as a beginner, could win a substantial number of games against the bot, it would mean backgammon was a pretty trivial game, one that almost anyone could master in a short period of time. Would you want to spend a lot of time playing a game like that? I wouldn't.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:28 AM   #12
jtolpin
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Thanks. When i get my ass kicked in a game though, over and over, it gets rather frustrating.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:44 AM   #13
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Me too.
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Old 01-30-2017, 10:12 AM   #14
jtolpin
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pairsof2s View Post
If I win, then no. If you win, then yes.

Sorry, I thought this was a Pokerstars thread.

PS> try Playok.com. It's a free site, no deposits or gambling, easy game operation and seems to have a fair RNG.
Mods, I have no interest in the site, I just play there. If I can't say that please delete and I'm sorry.
See. I hear 'fair RNG' and I wonder - are games rigged?
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:07 PM   #15
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

There's no reason to 'rig' anything on a free site. What would be the point?
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Old 01-31-2017, 09:39 AM   #16
crapbger
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

i am a truly awful player....i have read books, taken lessons, read more, use XG and NJ and still I am terrible. But after just a bit of study it becomes clear that the programs arent cheating....I just sorta stink.

Funny thing is I have a background in statistics and financial options modelling is what I do so you'd think I wouldn't be notably awful....but I am. If I am shown the top 5 moves to pick from I can play at an Er near 3 or 4 ....If I have to figure it out myself I often miss the moves...and so play at a ER near to and often above 10.

I do have a question though about the ELO....It seems to me that the general level of play that an elo represents must be relative to the pool one is playing in so that if I play on gridgammon (and I do) I would expect a lower ELO than if I played in a large pool of lesser players. I realize I'm giving credit to the folks that play on GG but it seems to me that if one goes to the trouble to set up an account and play as much as the average member then the average must be at.... i dunno slighty stronger than casual player?

Anyway I'm confused about the 3 ELO's that represent my play. (I get that glowing cube and hint buttons distort things by the way.)
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Old 01-31-2017, 02:29 PM   #17
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Your ELO on Gridgammon is the one you want to pay attention to, because that's where serious players play. Players on Gridgammon start at 1500, unless they're players who are well-known to be strong players, in which case they might be given a higher rating to start. If you play on other free sites I wouldn't pay much attention to the ELOs, as there aren't, for the most part, any good players on those sites.

And yes, your ELO depends very much on the pool of players on the site.
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Old 01-31-2017, 03:47 PM   #18
jtolpin
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

The site Im talking about is free, though you can buy coins. You cna spend moneythere.

It just 'seems' like whenever my opponent needs a roll, he gets it.

Bias, I know.. But indeed, I guess I too, just stink.
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Old 01-31-2017, 06:22 PM   #19
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Sounds like you both need to work on your game. As you improve, your opponents will get a lot less lucky.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:09 PM   #20
midiboy
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

I am currently playing Lord of the Board on Facebook. I like it - the play is quick and the interface is excellent. I win 61% of the time according to their stats and I rack up the money at a pretty fast clip as most players on there haven't a clue about using the cube.

I know how you feel wondering if a certain site is rigged; I often have wondered that myself when you have a run of games when the opponent pulls a game out of their butt with the perfect roll or even rolls. If I'm being fair, I also notice that I get a run of games where I get those rolls and i'm unstoppable.

When you feel yourself getting frustrated when playing online, give yourself a break, stop playing and study. Read Bill's books - Backgammon for Winners, Backgammon for Serious Players, then move on to 501. Study any of the many matches on Youtube with the world's best players playing each other. As you improve, you'll notice yourself applying what you just learned to your play.

Keep at it!
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Old 06-04-2017, 07:22 AM   #21
crapbger
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Its been a year of taking lessons and 3 years or playing more seriously ...im still pretty darn bad. My wife picked up the game 4 months ago and is about as good as me now just playing by feel. I understand the game in much more depth but over the board ...hey im just pretty bad. Some people have a knack and others have to fight for every win. Its not the bots folks .....oh how I wish it were.
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Old 06-04-2017, 10:08 AM   #22
Robertie
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crapbger View Post
Its been a year of taking lessons and 3 years or playing more seriously ...im still pretty darn bad. My wife picked up the game 4 months ago and is about as good as me now just playing by feel. I understand the game in much more depth but over the board ...hey im just pretty bad. Some people have a knack and others have to fight for every win. Its not the bots folks .....oh how I wish it were.
Do you practice regularly against XG? That can be very helpful.
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Old 07-09-2017, 04:40 PM   #23
Laz18
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Well, unike the OP, I am a advanced player with years of practice and playing tournaments and money games.
Last years I play just for fun.
Tried the Lord of the Board app and I can definitely say that there is something wrong with it.The bots are one thing. I can separate real player from bot that is playing at supernatural level.
I must clarify that in this app you can buy chips for money, so they try to empty your chips with this bot players.
Beside that, I can guarantee that some /paying users/ receive special set of rolls during the games.
Toay, for example, I have played with typical beginners player. Lots of simple mistakes.
We played more than 20 games in a row. I won 2 or 3.
I can't save and analyse the match there, but I know my game and can calculate the luck at some level. You cannot have that luck in 18 games in a row.
One game. I managed to fully close the board with 2 checkers hit and then he rolls 4 times 66. Common.
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Old 07-11-2017, 04:01 AM   #24
yogiman
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Re: Are online backgammon games rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertie View Post
There's no reason to 'rig' anything on a free site. What would be the point?
Still this happens with GNU. The possible reason I keep for myself.

But surely, commercial sites are rigged. I developed an algorithm that rules out online foul play. If I can do this, then certainly there are others who can do this, but apparently there is bad intention.
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