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JellyFish vs Snowie vs GNU

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04-08-2009 , 01:01 AM

Al Mirpuri

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5,485

The only freeware backgammon playing products I have used are JellyFish Player 3.0 and JellyFish Light 3.5.

And I seem to be the only person on these here forums to recommend JellyFish.

Everyone else seems to recommend Snowie or GNU.

I am more than willing to accept I am recommending an inferior product and will stop doing so if someone can tell me why Snowie and GNU are superior products.

Could someone please comment upon freeware and commercial versions of the products listed?

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04-08-2009 , 11:47 AM

kitaristi0

l'étranger

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,139

I believe it's commonly accepted that Snowie is the best, but I'm unsure about the relative strengths of GNU and Jellyfish. I found this

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Hi all,

with Tony Lezard's program Dueller I am playing a round robin
tournament with a series of 1000 25-point matches each pairing.
Participants: Snowie 4.1, GNUBG (from 2 May 2003) and JellyFish 3.5.

All programs at highest strength (GNUBG at Supremo (checker play and
double decisions).

Standings this week:

GNU - JellyFish 3.5 = 330 - 248 -> 57.1 %
Snowie 4.1 - GNU = 262 - 249 -> 51.3 %
Snowie 4.1 - JellyFish 3.5 = 112 - 92 -> 54.9 %

from a bkgm.com forum archive post from 2003. I don't know whether there have been significant improvements since then but Jellyfish 3.5 seems to still be the current version, as is Snowie 4 (though it's now 4.7sth I think). But yeah, Snowie > GNU > Jellyfish I think.

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04-09-2009 , 01:38 AM

Aaron W.

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 30,132

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitaristi0

Snowie 4.1 - GNU = 262 - 249 -> 51.3 %

Given that Snowie costs a few hundred dollars and GNU is free, I think this makes GNU a significantly better investment.

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04-09-2009 , 08:20 AM

kitaristi0

l'étranger

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,139

Well like I said those numbers are several years old but I agree that GNU is by far the best choice for a non-super serious expert.

One thing I forgot to mention is that Snowie is much better at playing backgames and similar types of positions than any other computer. I have nothing right here to back up that claim but I'm sure Robertie and the other experts here can confirm.

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04-09-2009 , 06:06 PM

SomeCallMeTom

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

Given that Snowie costs a few hundred dollars and GNU is free, I think this makes GNU a significantly better investment.

+1

I have no experience with Snowie or Jellyfish, but as a casual player, I have no doubt that I am in posession of a first class program at no cost. It's just tough to get a lot better than that.

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04-10-2009 , 11:12 AM

spike420211

banned

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 9,509

as freeware, GNU [even the windows version] is what Ubuntu wants to be when it grows up.

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04-14-2009 , 05:03 AM

Viikatemies

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 377

If you want to play online seriously, you'll need Snowie not necessarily because of its playing strength but certainly because of its excellent database functionality. Think of it as your "BackgammomTracker"...

GNU does have some kind of database functionality too, but using it is a real pain in the ***.

GNU also has some other usability quirks, such as not caching rollout results. Especially this is completely ridiculous. You do a rollout, misclick or whatever, and now the results are gone and you would have to rerun the complete rollout.

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04-14-2009 , 09:03 PM

Robertie

old hand

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,954

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitaristi0

The latest versions of Snowie, 4.5 to 4.7 I think, have a separately optimized neural net for backgames. It's amazingly good, and it also results in improvements in parts of the game where a backgame is one among several possible alternatives.

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04-30-2009 , 01:00 PM

Crane

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,375

I've been using Jellyfish light 3.5 for years. I much prefer the interface and speed of the program. I've tried Snowie and GNU but they just seem so slow, and the look and feel isn't quite right, but it has been a long time since I've used them. I'll try GNU again, but like I said, the interface for Jellyfish is excellent in my opinion.

I also like the way Jellyfish allows you to finish out the game with a click of a button by letting the program play out both sides of the board.

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04-30-2009 , 01:13 PM

#10

Crane

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,375

Well I went to the GNU website and tried to install the program, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to do it. It seems overly complicated, and comments on the site reflected the same opinion.

Maybe I'll try it when it's a simpler process to download.

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04-30-2009 , 02:03 PM

#11

Al Mirpuri

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crane

I am glad I found a brother in arms.

Everybody always seems to be for GNU or Snowie.

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05-02-2009 , 11:12 PM

#12

atrifix

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 500

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crane

I also like the way Jellyfish allows you to finish out the game with a click of a button by letting the program play out both sides of the board.

Both Snowie and GNU also have this feature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitaristi0

Well like I said those numbers are several years old but I agree that GNU is by far the best choice for a non-super serious expert.

I have Snowie and am a super-serious expert; GNU is better.

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