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I would like to get good at backgammon I would like to get good at backgammon

05-17-2010 , 05:25 AM
So, like a lot of people, I have been brought up playing backgammon occasionally with my family but have never really got very good.

I have never read any books or really looked to learn in depth theories about the game, but I understand the basic principles, and am now looking to learn how to improve.

I have browsed this forum a couple of times but it seems like everyone here already knows a lot about the game, and there are no beginner threads / stickies......


I would really appreciate it if anyone could point me in the direction of some good resources, either online or in book form.

Cheers

G
I would like to get good at backgammon Quote
05-17-2010 , 06:51 AM
501 essential backgammon problems from Bill Robertie is a good book, it combines problems with explanations. The best way to learn while playing is downloading gnugb for free, put it on grandmaster level and let it analyse your (mostly lost) games. You shouldnt be afraid to lose, but isnt that part of any learning process?
I would like to get good at backgammon Quote
05-17-2010 , 08:53 AM
Thanks. I came across gnubg. Does anyone have any experience setting it up on a mac? Ty
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05-17-2010 , 09:09 AM
Gnu and the other bots are excellent opponents, but if you're a genuine beginner they won't help you that much. You'll lose almost all the games and you won't be able to figure out why Gnu's moves are better than what you would have done.

Start with some good beginner books that explain the basic principles of the game, read them a couple of times, and then you'll be ready to start using the bots. Here's a couple of recommendations:

Backgammon for Winners
Backgammon for Serious Players
Starting Out in Backgammon
Backgammon for Blood (by Chris Bray, NOT the Bruce Becker version)

These are all available on Amazon. Skip the 501 Essential Problems for now. It assumes you're familiar with what's in these books.

If you'd rather learn from videos, there's a couple of video series on backgammon on a site called Drag the Bar.

Hope this helps.
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05-17-2010 , 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWooster
.....I would really appreciate it if anyone could point me in the direction of some good resources, either online or in book form....
I have written an article for complete beginners you can read it HERE
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05-17-2010 , 02:51 PM
Thanks Micheal & Robertie, just the sort of thing I was looking for.
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05-23-2010 , 02:35 AM
Mr Wooster, let me know how you get on. If you have any comments to make, please let me have them - good or bad!
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05-23-2010 , 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Crane
Mr Wooster, let me know how you get on. If you have any comments to make, please let me have them - good or bad!
Will do... only read through the first part so far, but will post here with comments when I have gone through it all.
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06-13-2010 , 02:15 PM
Perhaps the sticky should point to this thread, and others, for people to start out with when they visit?
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06-13-2010 , 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWooster
Thanks. I came across gnubg. Does anyone have any experience setting it up on a mac? Ty
Hi Mr. Wooster,

a friend of mine wanted to setup gnubg for a Mac, and as far as I know its only available for MacOS10.5 and newer, I have placed a thread on this forum with questions about doing gnubg on an older Mac, you might want to take a look at the answers on this thread,

greetings k.
I would like to get good at backgammon Quote
06-30-2010 , 03:53 AM
HA, just what i was looking for

i keep losing to my friend, cant take it anymore
I would like to get good at backgammon Quote
06-30-2010 , 06:37 AM
is the backgammon for dummies any good?
I would like to get good at backgammon Quote
06-30-2010 , 12:16 PM
I saw "Backgammon for Dummies" in a bookstore a few years ago and leafed through it. It was an OK beginner's book, and I didn't see anything that was really inaccurate or misleading.
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06-30-2010 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertie
Backgammon for Blood (by Chris Bray, NOT the Bruce Becker version)
A very unfortunate choice of titles for the American market, as I understand, had something to do with US publishers catching wind of a 2006 article in Men's Vogue where George P Bush had mentioned that Backgammon for Blood by Bruce Becker was one of the most-read books in the Bush family. The original title of Chris Bray's book for the British market was Backgammon to Win: Play Like a Pro Both Online and Off. See comment here from Chris Bray on the choice of title for the US market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertie
I saw "Backgammon for Dummies" in a bookstore a few years ago and leafed through it. It was an OK beginner's book, and I didn't see anything that was really inaccurate or misleading.
If you're talking about B4D by Chris Bray, that was first published back in 2008.
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07-20-2010 , 08:28 PM
Well, one of the main things you want try to do in a Backgammon game it try to establish defense blocks in the middle. If I had to give a noob just one piece of advice that would be it.
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08-02-2010 , 07:56 AM
Hello Robertie,

I have 501 Backgammon Problems ( great book ). Where does Modern Backgammon fit in ? Is it something like Backgammon Bootcamp ? I play friends and the program Motif a lot online. If I'm ready for Modern Backgammon, I'll get it , too. I also have Starting out in Backgammon, so I got a book on the basics.

thanks
I would like to get good at backgammon Quote
08-02-2010 , 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickturtle
Hello Robertie,

I have 501 Backgammon Problems ( great book ). Where does Modern Backgammon fit in ? Is it something like Backgammon Bootcamp ? I play friends and the program Motif a lot online. If I'm ready for Modern Backgammon, I'll get it , too. I also have Starting out in Backgammon, so I got a book on the basics.

thanks
Glad you liked '501'. Here's a list of some books you might want to consider reading next, with a few comments:

New Ideas in BG, by Woolsey/Heinrich. Great collection of 104 problems, mostly from the middle game, which stumped a group of top players when given to them as a quiz. Excellent analysis.

Advanced BG, 1 and 2, by me. A total of 400 problems, both checker and cube, divided by topic. Somewhat tougher problems than in 501, but a lot of classic positions that you just need to know. Written in the pre-bot era, so about 10% of the problems have been refuted by the bots, so read in conjunction with the next book.

Classic BG Revisited, by Bagai. Bagai ran Snowie against all the problems in several older books and explained in detail the problems which were shown to be wrong. Excellent job.

BG Encyclopedia, by Woolsey. A book entirely on basic cube reference positions. Indispensable for improving your cube play.

Modern BG. A book on the general theory of the game, describing some common themes that unite a lot of strange-looking bot plays. You can read this before or after any of the others.

Hope this helps.
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08-02-2010 , 11:49 PM
seems like a good place to ask... which beginner/intermediate book has the math laid out best?

Hit probabilities, enter probabilities, escape probabilities, etc. Either something that's cleanly condensed in chart form for the simpler stuff or just generally a math based approach to tough positions, for example analyzing choice A vs Choice B in terms of the opponent's next roll probabilities, say comparing two different ways of leaving blot(s) open in terms of % chance of getting hit.

Just in general, what's the best mathish book
I would like to get good at backgammon Quote
08-03-2010 , 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertie
Glad you liked '501'. Here's a list of some books you might want to consider reading next, with a few comments:

New Ideas in BG, by Woolsey/Heinrich. Great collection of 104 problems, mostly from the middle game, which stumped a group of top players when given to them as a quiz. Excellent analysis.

Advanced BG, 1 and 2, by me. A total of 400 problems, both checker and cube, divided by topic. Somewhat tougher problems than in 501, but a lot of classic positions that you just need to know. Written in the pre-bot era, so about 10% of the problems have been refuted by the bots, so read in conjunction with the next book.

Classic BG Revisited, by Bagai. Bagai ran Snowie against all the problems in several older books and explained in detail the problems which were shown to be wrong. Excellent job.

BG Encyclopedia, by Woolsey. A book entirely on basic cube reference positions. Indispensable for improving your cube play.

Modern BG. A book on the general theory of the game, describing some common themes that unite a lot of strange-looking bot plays. You can read this before or after any of the others.

Hope this helps.
Thanks Bill,

When I grow up, I wanna be just like you
I would like to get good at backgammon Quote
08-03-2010 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnedfromTV
seems like a good place to ask... which beginner/intermediate book has the math laid out best?

Hit probabilities, enter probabilities, escape probabilities, etc. Either something that's cleanly condensed in chart form for the simpler stuff or just generally a math based approach to tough positions, for example analyzing choice A vs Choice B in terms of the opponent's next roll probabilities, say comparing two different ways of leaving blot(s) open in terms of % chance of getting hit.

Just in general, what's the best mathish book

Hi,

First of all do NOT, i repeat NOT buy the book The mathematical theory behind backgammon from Ali Khayat, i have bought it because i wanted a book as you described it but i returned it to the bookstore because the book is about astrology and NOT!!! about mathematics,

Well and now i will try to give a positive answer to your question, there is mathematics in Robertie's Advanced Backgammon especially on bear-off situations, Paul Lamford's Improve your backgammon there is maths about (or more precise formulas about) the race and match play, and in his book 100 backgammon puzzles he gives a small chapter on basic probabilities, like hit probabilities for direct shots, indirect shots, probabilities on entering from the bar against different boards; the forementioned you might be able to calculate them yourselves, just try it, put them in a reply, and i say if you are correct.

Here are a few numbers which are hard to calculate:

Probability of winning:

One man closed out but your other men in your board: 5%
A closed board against a man on the bar when your opponent has borne off 14 checkers: 8%
10 checkers: 25%
5 checkers: 75%

Chance of being gammoned:
One man closed out, other men in your board: 5%
Two men closed out, ....: 45%
Three men closed out,...: 90%

Another good advice, play against gnu on grandmaster level and try to calculate the equity's he gives, see if you understand his calculation,

you can also send a position that you don't understand to this forum and I can give you an example on how to calculate the equity,

well this is what I know about the maths,

greetings k.
I would like to get good at backgammon Quote
08-03-2010 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnedfromTV
seems like a good place to ask... which beginner/intermediate book has the math laid out best?

Hit probabilities, enter probabilities, escape probabilities, etc. Either something that's cleanly condensed in chart form for the simpler stuff or just generally a math based approach to tough positions, for example analyzing choice A vs Choice B in terms of the opponent's next roll probabilities, say comparing two different ways of leaving blot(s) open in terms of % chance of getting hit.

Just in general, what's the best mathish book
In general, there's not too much math in backgammon. It's more a game of pattern recognition. However, Chris Bray's Backgammon for Blood has a pretty good chapter on what math you do need to know.
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08-06-2010 , 04:24 PM
The only advice I disagree with is about GNU. Don't set it on too high a difficulty. Play against an opponent who you can beat at least 50% of the time. Have the "Tutor Mode" only correct you on egregious errors until you're not making very many egregious errors.

If you start off playing against the toughest computer opponent on the strictest tutor level you're just going to break your computer with your fist. And more germane to this forum, you're going to hate BG and give up before you learn much.
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08-06-2010 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by damedley
The only advice I disagree with is about GNU. Don't set it on too high a difficulty. Play against an opponent who you can beat at least 50% of the time. Have the "Tutor Mode" only correct you on egregious errors until you're not making very many egregious errors.

If you start off playing against the toughest computer opponent on the strictest tutor level you're just going to break your computer with your fist. And more germane to this forum, you're going to hate BG and give up before you learn much.
I understand that it may be frustrating to lose a lot against gnu. But playing against a lower level will teach you wrong lessons. You should see it as learning sessions, besides that you can also play to humans of your own level and analyse the games on gnu, but then you should analyse on a 3-ply grandmaster level, for your own good,

greetings k.
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08-09-2010 , 12:42 PM
I just started getting into backgammon and downloaded gnu, I was wondering is there a way to set up a board and then ask what you think is the correct play?
I would like to get good at backgammon Quote
08-09-2010 , 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
I just started getting into backgammon and downloaded gnu, I was wondering is there a way to set up a board and then ask what you think is the correct play?
First thing I would recommend doing is go into Settings, Analysis (I assume that's what its called, but I have the Danish version so I can't be sure). Change the settings for both checkerplay and cubeaction to world class (or supremo if you have a really fast comp, but world class should be sufficient). Do the same for evaluation and rollouts. Remember to save the settings afterwards.

To set up a position, click the edit icon just above the board. You can clear all the checkers off the board by left clicking in the space where you bear your checkers off to or you can return to the starting position by left clicking on the other side of the board. Besides that you just left click on the board to add or remove the bottom players checkers (click just below the point to remove all checkers from a point) and right click to add/remove the top players checkers.

Cube is centered as standard. Click on the cube to change that if necessary.

To do a checkerplay analysis, click in the middle of the board on either side and choose the dice.

You can also change the match score just below the board. For moneygames set the match lenght to 0.

When you've set up the position click the edit button again, and choose Analysis, Hint (Ctrl-H).

Last edited by mute; 08-09-2010 at 01:34 PM. Reason: left/right
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