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Backgammon Forum hosted by Bill Robertie. Discussion of anything related to backgammon: strategy, problems, books, clubs, and tournaments.

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Old 11-28-2010, 07:12 AM   #1
madog777
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how much of an edge do i have?

hey guys I just started learning backgammon from watching some of bill robertie's videos on drag the bar about a month ago and have been playing quite a bit vs GNU and just random friends.
in any case, I live in the middle east and backgammon is kinda big here and lots of my friends love to play. i was playing vs them and every time i would split my runners or bring down builders the whole room would burst into laughter
this was so funny to me, in any case what i'm trying to say is that all my friends play the safe play like instead of bringing down builders they will pile up on the 6 point.. stuff like that... it's not like they totally retarded... when they get 3:1 and easy rolls like that they do make points but they are like the typical amateur player who thinks backgammon is all about the race and is 100% luck...
another thing, they don't use a cube which kinda sux. and gammons and backgammons are worth the same as a regular win.

lately i've challenged some of them to play me for money and they happily agreed but i think i've been making the plays that make more gammons but win less games because i got used to making them, but with the games they play it doesn't matter how u win they are all worth the same amount.
I was wondering how much of an edge do i have vs these guys in the situation i described and how do i learn more of the plays that win more games in general.
thanks
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:13 AM   #2
RolldUpTrips
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

practice DMP games vs the computer
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:21 AM   #3
madog777
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

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Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
practice DMP games vs the computer
what are those?
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:45 AM   #4
kruidenbuiltje
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

Hi,

DMP means double match point. And that means that when you play for instance until 7 points the score is 6-6. So thats a situation where gammons and backgammons dont count.
I dont know how you can set this is gnu,

greetings k.
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:53 AM   #5
kruidenbuiltje
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

Hi,

its me again,

I was thinking about your question about the edge you have against the safe players.
It means also that you cant lose a backgame with a gammon. So i think you should freely take the normal risks, like builders and even slotting 13/11 6/5 when you open with 21. Just attack on the 4 and 5 point. And dont be afraid of getting into backgames, since the cost for you is lower, and since i guess they wont be used to it, they will probably suck in that area of play too.

I think your edge is about the same,

greetings k.
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:57 AM   #6
kruidenbuiltje
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

Hi,

you can also play: 1 point no double, on a free site like gamecolony.com, and after you play you can send an e-mail to yourself and then you can copy and paste the game-notation to a notepad, save it as a .txt file, open this file in gnu and let him analyse it, that way you will learn also what the best DMP play is,

greetings k.
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Old 11-28-2010, 08:29 AM   #7
madog777
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

okay cool..
i meant like how many games would i win if we played 100 games.
was just wondering that in general... but yea that's some good advice i know you can tell gnu to play till 1 point i've tried that before.
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:50 AM   #8
lostin transit
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

It must be very frustrating for you, having to play such an emaciated version of the game. I first discovered bg in Turkey, and though they don't have the cube of course, they at least score 2 for a gammon and 3 for a bg. I wish I could go back to that cafe now - I'd annihilate them.
The cube is a fascinating example of a 'meme' - a great idea that either sweeps the world or meets stubborn resistance and takes hundreds of years to spread. Because son learns from father, it will be centuries before the cube is universal, despite doubling the skill and excitement the game can offer.
Slightly more OT, if you google 'DMP quiz' something interesting will come up as the first entry - don't want to give a direct link as it might be considered bad manners.
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:56 AM   #9
Joppe
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

Hi!

How much of an edge you have is impossible to say when we dont know how good you are . But if you´ve been practising against GNU and watched the videos you should definitely have an edge against those players even if you continue to play your normal game.

Also, pracising DMP-games against GNU will teach you when you should alter your play to gain an even bigger edge. Just click "New" and then "1" under match settings.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:19 AM   #10
Robertie
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madog777 View Post
okay cool..
i meant like how many games would i win if we played 100 games.
was just wondering that in general... but yea that's some good advice i know you can tell gnu to play till 1 point i've tried that before.
Without having seen you play, this is a tough question to answer. But in general, a reasonably good Western player against beginners, with no cube and no gammons, would actually have a pretty small edge -- probably 55-45 in 100 games, maybe as much as 60-40. When you take those rules out, you've eliminated most of the edge.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:41 AM   #11
RealNick
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

With no cube or gammons you're playing a modified version of what is widely considered backgammon and taking out a good part of the skill out of the game. I don't know how to quantify your edge but if they play a luck based running game and eschew hitting loose that sounds like an exploitable defect in their playing style. Think for practice you can just play 1pt games against gnu as was suggested above.

So how are you making out? are you up or down?
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:03 PM   #12
madog777
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

thanks for all the replies.
been playing for like a month now and been practicing quite a bit... also been reading anything i can get my hands on.
anyways, people here are very annoyed every time i suggest the doubling cube since i've read so much about it it kinda sux not being able to use it...
but luckily i have their money to comfort me
i was just wondering that if they offer me worse than the usual 1:1 odds if i should agree to play them or not... but yes i understand it's difficult to say without watching me play.
might be better for me to just ask them to play me heads up in NLHE... but i was kind of hoping backgammon had more of an edge since there are so many bad players here i thought i discovered a huge opportunity to make some good money.
anyways thanks again
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:26 AM   #13
solucky
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

At my best time i played around a 5-6 like snowie, your edge should be less without gammons and the cube. But it should be easy to "teach" the people...lets play with cube.

The CUBE will bring you a good edge if you know how to use it but you must adjust your play. At sample snowie would tell you no double / take, but with the right opponents you know its a easy double...they will not take it
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Old 12-01-2010, 08:11 PM   #14
lostin transit
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Re: how much of an edge do i have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solucky View Post
But it should be easy to "teach" the people...lets play with cube.
yeah - and let's get the Americans to use a goat's head instead of a baseball while we're at it - just as 'easy'.
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