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Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move?? Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move??

08-06-2010 , 07:39 PM


The move I would take shows up dead last in GNU's rollouts:
Bar/23* - hit in my opponent's home board
6/2 - close out my 2 point

Instead it wants me to NOT hit and NOT make a point. Two of the most absurd recommendations actually have you break a point (7/5 or 8/6).

What the hell is going on here??
Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move?? Quote
08-06-2010 , 08:18 PM
Most understand the need for delay when they are playing a backgame. Here is an example where the player defending a backgame also needs delay. You will be helped if you are hit.

The fight right now is not for the two point, it is for the ten point. If you are hit on the two point, in many variations it is correct to slot it again with one of the builders from your six and nine points. With luck those men will be hit and recirculated so that they can be used to make the ten point.

It is possible to hit your opponent in a backgame too many times. With fifteen checkers back the backgame is easier to win. Good backgame defense often means dividing your opponent's forces, and then forcing him to crash, killling checkers on his lower points.

I learned this primarily in my reading of several books by Bill Robertie. I believe his book Backgammon for Serious Players details the strategy best. [Thank you, Bill.]

Last edited by Taper_Mike; 08-06-2010 at 08:26 PM.
Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move?? Quote
08-07-2010 , 10:26 AM
it's a timing thing, you have to funnel him out since bearing off against three point blockade is going to be pretty much impossible to do safely. grabbing your 2pt and hitting doesn't really help you at this point. Interesting position, thanks for posting.
Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move?? Quote
08-07-2010 , 02:18 PM
Backgames are very different from normal positions. In normal positions you want to hit blots to gain ground in the race. Here you're more than 100 pips ahead already -- what good does hitting another checker really do? Your goal is twofold:

(1) Extend your prime to a full 6-point prime, so he can't escape any back checkers for awhile.

(2) Keep him moving, so his board will eventually collapse.

Note that hitting and making the 2-point doesn't help either goal. Bar/21 9/7 is best, because it lets White move. If White now rolls an ace, he might actually play 24/23* (blunder), which gives you another checker that can get around and try to make the 10-point.
Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move?? Quote
08-09-2010 , 03:06 AM
What is so great about making a prime here? I'm going to have to break it right after I make it! Or could I somehow force him to give up one or two points in my home board? Or make him put his advanced checkers in an inflexible position? I am not seeing the value.
Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move?? Quote
08-09-2010 , 05:02 AM
Hi damedley,

I will try to explain the value.

In this backgame the right strategy for white is to make a good board, so that when white hits a black checker it can be contained and closed out, while the other checkers jump over the 5-prime and come home. This way white can win.

What can happen when black has a 6-prime?

Say for example that black makes the 10 point and thus a full prime.
And the white checker from the 10 point is on the 20-point. When white then throws a 5 he will have to play 6/1, thus making it much harder to make a good board, the board begins to crumble and that's what they a nothing game, instead of a backgame,

greetings k.
Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move?? Quote
08-09-2010 , 03:10 PM
Good position and discussion here. Thanks to everyone that posted!
Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move?? Quote
08-15-2010 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertie
Backgames are very different from normal positions. In normal positions you want to hit blots to gain ground in the race. Here you're more than 100 pips ahead already -- what good does hitting another checker really do? Your goal is twofold:

(1) Extend your prime to a full 6-point prime, so he can't escape any back checkers for awhile.

(2) Keep him moving, so his board will eventually collapse.

Note that hitting and making the 2-point doesn't help either goal. Bar/21 9/7 is best, because it lets White move. If White now rolls an ace, he might actually play 24/23* (blunder), which gives you another checker that can get around and try to make the 10-point.
Thanks for the details
Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move?? Quote
08-15-2010 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kruidenbuiltje
Hi damedley,

I will try to explain the value.

In this backgame the right strategy for white is to make a good board, so that when white hits a black checker it can be contained and closed out, while the other checkers jump over the 5-prime and come home. This way white can win.

What can happen when black has a 6-prime?

Say for example that black makes the 10 point and thus a full prime.
And the white checker from the 10 point is on the 20-point. When white then throws a 5 he will have to play 6/1, thus making it much harder to make a good board, the board begins to crumble and that's what they a nothing game, instead of a backgame,

greetings k.
Thanks K,

You made the point clear and simple
Hit in opponent's home and make a point in your home: Wrong Move?? Quote

      
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