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Great positional problem

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10-20-2014 , 05:52 PM

Ender1204

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 177

White - Pips 164. Match Score 0/11

Black - Pips 167. Match Score 2/11
Black to Play 2-2
XGID=-b-a--E-C---cEaa---cb-bA-A:0:0:1:22:2:0:0:11:10

Play offense or defense here? Why?

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10-20-2014 , 06:21 PM

networth

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 2,208

I like offense here. 4pt adds more to the position than advancing the anchor.

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10-20-2014 , 10:14 PM

uberkuber

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,030

Assuming we make the 4-pt, what's our last deuce? I would prefer 23/21 to 13/11 I think...

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10-20-2014 , 10:29 PM

Aaron W.

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 30,132

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberkuber

Assuming we make the 4-pt, what's our last deuce? I would prefer 23/21 to 13/11 I think...

I'm inclined towards 13/11. It fits the offensive theme better. But I see the appeal of stepping up. There's not that much risk and we're ahead in the race, so we don't really want to hang out on the 2 point.

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10-20-2014 , 11:27 PM

uberkuber

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,030

Well, the race lead would be insignificant at this point. I like stepping up not so much for eventually making an anchor, but for putting a little pressure on the 2 White blots in the outfield. That said, like you mentioned, 13/11 would bring a nice builder to make either the 5-pt or the bar point.

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10-21-2014 , 07:58 AM

Fllecha

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 321

When in Doubt make the golden point. Here it's close, but pratically simply set an high anchor and it Will Be simpler to play than making the 4 point.

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10-21-2014 , 08:11 AM

peachpie

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 182

I'll take the advanced anchor. Looks like white is about to make an outfield point, I don't want to be too far behind all that.

Also I think splitting the back men is really bad. If you feel you need to advance to 21, that is a clue that you should just make the point.

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10-21-2014 , 08:51 AM

911InsideJob

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 52

You are not in danger of getting primed here. The 2 point anchor will do just fine.

Therefore Bar/23, 6/4(2), 13/11. Make a defensive anchor, makes a strong inner point while unstacking the heavy six and also unstacks the mid to the best builder post available. Pretty good stuff for one roll.

Finally, note that by splitting instead with Bar/21, 6/4(2) you are asking to be hit when outboarded. 2's, 6's, 7's, 9's all hit loose when you are under pressure to respond immediately else be behind the eight ball.

As NeilKaz advises "where do you want to fight?" Answer - our side of the board. Not in opponent's inner board.

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10-21-2014 , 09:37 AM

Robertie

old hand

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,954

Let's start with Bar/23. Now we have an anchor. That's good.

There are now two possible ways to proceed: 23/21(2) and 6/4(2). Both make a better point than we currently have. Which is more important?

Playing 6/4(2) helps our front game enormously. We make a good point and we rectify a big weakness, the stack on the 6-point. Playing 23/21(2) upgrades our back anchor. It's certainly an improvement, but a much smaller improvement than making the 4-point.

The last deuce is clearly 13/11. It unstacks and creates a good builder for several key points, at a small risk.

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10-21-2014 , 10:24 AM

#10

peachpie

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 182

Interesting. I was thinking that once I make the high anchor, I can build my homeboard more or less at my leisure. Maybe that is too optimistic.

Let's see the analysis, I am curious how big a difference there is.

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10-21-2014 , 11:08 AM

#11

uberkuber

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,030

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fllecha

When in Doubt make the golden point. Here it's close, but pratically simply set an high anchor and it Will Be simpler to play than making the 4 point.

The defensive 4-pt is generally less valuable than the golden point. I believe it is the case here.

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10-21-2014 , 11:52 AM

#12

Fllecha

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 321

I belive that even if making the 4 point is more balanced it produces a position where almost all intermediates would make some errors later on, mainly because of the low anchor and cube action, but it's only my opinion.

The high anchor leads to a more common 4-point holding game which is simpler to play but I admit that in that case black's structure is too stacked and that may cause some checker play error... mmm not an easy one to play OTB.

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10-21-2014 , 06:12 PM

#13

Ender1204

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fllecha

The high anchor leads to a more common 4-point holding game which is simpler to play

That was one of my main reasons for making the defensive 4 point OTB, but the more I look at this position the more I see the 6 point screaming to be unstacked.

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10-23-2014 , 02:59 AM

#14

Taper_Mike

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,030

911 and Robertie give a nice, detailed explanation of this one. My thinking was along similar lines.

One well-played sequence that reaches this position is the one below. I am not sure whether Ender has a different one. Without so much hitting, it may be possible to get there in one roll less.

Black 64-Run: 24/14
White 33-Attack: 8/5(2), 6/3(2)

Black 43-Hit: 24/17*
White 32-Hit: bar/22, 13/11*

Black 32-Hit: bar/23, 17/14*
White 42-Hit: bar/21, 13/11*

Black 64-Run: bar/15
White 65-Hit: 21/10*

Black 22: ?

One of the variants I experimented with has only four checkers on the midpoint. It makes for a closer choice. Would you guys still play 6/4(2), 13/11 in the position below? It is for unlimited games, no Jacoby, no beavers.

White - Pips 164

Black - Pips 162
Black to Play 2-2
XGID=-b-a--E-D---cDaa---cb-bA-A:0:0:1:22:0:0:0:0:10

Mike

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10-23-2014 , 05:40 AM

#15

yogiman

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 784

Yes, having the 11 point, the 13 point gets less important. (See Robertie somewhere)

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10-23-2014 , 09:33 AM

#16

Robertie

old hand

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,954

In Mike's revised problem, I'm still playing Bar/23 and 6/4(2) with my first three 2s. But now I'm indifferent between 8/6 and 13/11. The formation with two spares on the 8-pt and only one on the 6-pt doesn't play quite as well as two on the 6 and one on the 8, so 8/6 is a small improvement. A blot on the 11-point is still a useful builder with a small risk of being hit. I lean toward 13/11 over the board, but wouldn't be surprised if 8/6 was a little better.

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10-23-2014 , 09:51 AM

#17

uberkuber

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,030

Last edited by uberkuber; 10-23-2014 at 10:06 AM.

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