Hey all, this is my first post here, so first of all, "Hi!" I've played backgammon my entire life and grew up loving this game, but recently I've decided to step up my game and learn to play the "right way" so I can play competitively. I've been reading Robertie's books and learning to play dynamically, but I've found my cube decisions to be lacking somewhat. I've been playing cash games against gnubg for practice, and I had two recent games that left me scratching my head a bit. Maybe you could help.

Game 1.


Cash game. I'm black, gnubg is red. It's my roll and I had a hard time deciding whether or not to double here. Red's got a nice defense going here with his two anchors, but he's also got 8 checkers in the back and I've got the 5 prime going. I was also not very afraid of his somewhat undeveloped home board, but I've had games completely collapse against the 4-5 back game, and so I was a little worried. Is a double a good choice here? You can see I decided not to and suffered a crummy 21 as a result!

Game 2.


Cash game. I'm black, gnubg is red. It was my roll, and I had a six prime going along with my last three checkers ready to cross over into my outfield. I decided to double since we were playing with the Jacoby rule, and to my surprise, gnubg beavers to 4! I was stunned! Was doubling a huge error on my part or was this a mistake by gnubg? What was he thinking here? I obviously took and went on to easily win the match.

One thing I'm trying to work on is slowing down my cubes. I seem to push them too early, and maybe I crossed that line in both of the games above. I would appreciate some of your thoughts as to what I should have done with the cube above. If the decisions were completely obvious and I just missed them, please explain the thought process I should have gone through to come to those decisions.

Thanks again, everyone!

pos 1.: I think your evaluation is way off. You are going to win a lot of games here and a ton of gammons as well, so if you double here this is a huge pass. If jacoby wasn't in effect I would say that this was too good to double.

pos 2.: what the hell!? Again too good to double without jacoby, but here you can safely cash. This is a ginormous pass I'm pretty sure.

I would guess that you are playing against gnu on a very low setting for it to make such a huge blunder in pos 2.

Greetings! Welcome to the forum.

Game 1. Against a "well-timed" backgame I have read recommendations from several experts (including Bill Robertie) that you should hold off your double until you are ready to clear the third point still blocked by your opponent's anchors. But that advise doesn't apply here. Your opponent is not well-timed. He has already made his one-point (bad news in a backgame), and if he cannot escape on the very next throw, his board will crash completely. You may have preferred a roll that would have allowed you to hold your block (and increase the likelyhood that your opponent will crash), but 21 is still a good roll for you. Good and small. Just pick up the rear point, and play your spares for a turn or two. If you're playing with the Jacoby Rule, you should cash next time. Otherwise, I trust Mute's judgements. He is rarely wrong.

Game 2. So, what's wrong with your GNU settings? Have you explored its many menus? You should set everything you can to World Class or Supremo, and you'll have to do in several places.

Settings->Analysis->Advanced
Settings->Players-Advanced
Settings->Rollouts

Don't forget to choose Settings->Save settings when you are done.

The comments above are right on. Both positions are huge passes, and you need to check the GNU settings to see what the problem is.

The positions did spotlight a problem in your play however: you're thinking about doubling too late! In both cases, unless you threw some amazing number on the last turn, your optimal doubling point came much earlier in the game. You want to be doubling when you have a good position with some threats to become a crushing position. If you wait until your opponent is crushed (broken home board, trapped behind a 6-prime) then you've waited too long.

Try loosening up your cubes a bit and see what happens.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm relieved to learn that gnubg's beaver was a huge no-no, haha. I have it set to casual play, which is only one setting above beginner, so it tends to make some mistakes, but I really didn't see that coming. I initially tried playing it on the harder levels, but it was too frustrating for me, because I would just get ridiculously hammered every game. So I decided to start at the easiest level and work my way up. While I'm not playing against expert players this way, it's taught me how to capitalize on my opponent's mistakes and adjust my tactics to them. I'm still playing online against humans as well, so I get a bit of both worlds. Anyway, as you can see from both these games, I'm starting to dominate gnubg on the casual play settings, so I guess I better move it up a notch.

Mike, can you clarify your comments on Game 1? What do you mean by the third point blocked by the anchors? Are you talking about the 8 point here? So after the 9 and 10 are cleared is when I should double? That's about what I was thinking, which is why I chose not to double.

Both spots are clear double/pass with Jacoby in effect. In position two gnub must be on one of it's very lowest settings to come up with this as a beaver - on world class it marks it as a clear double/pass by a huge margin. Just taking is a huge mistake, let alone beavering.

Both these are very late doubling spots where you have already lost the market by a considerable way by the looks of things - try consulting the doubling equities after some early moves and watch the equity change to try to give you a better idea of the sort of areas you want to be doubling in before you have the game completely locked up. Generally most doubles in cash games occur before the game is this well defined, and watching how the equities change depending on the relevant holdings, threats and race earlier in the game should improve your cube game a lot.

As some general advice on Gnub and skill gaming in general, I would not start on the lower settings - it tends to play unlike any human player ever would, and can end up confusing you even more if you are trying to improve. Just like in poker or pool you are much better off just getting hammered by good players but really trying to focus on what they are doing which is hammering you.

In particular you want to look at any of your moves Gnub marks as 'very bad', and really try to understand why these are such large mistakes, and why the alternative in a given situation is better. Once you have started to eliminate these mistakes, move on to 'bad' and so on. Also note any move it makes that you would not have given the same roll in their position and think carefully about what it is trying to do.

Playing very tough players is a very good thing in any skill game as long as you do it cheaply, as it teaches you the nuances of the game much faster than you ever can in games when you have a good chance to dominate, where your mistakes get disguised and reinforced by the opponent having even worse ones.

I agree that starting GNU on a lower setting can be detremental to your development. Half of the knowledge that you gain through playing the bots is watching their moves as you play. For cube decisions try to think about three critical elements: Race, position and threats. If you have an advantage in two of the three, then you should be thinking about doubling most of the time.

I recommened the original issue of Kit Woolseys "Doubling Rule". But be aware. First you have to master why a position is a take or pass. I think, the optimum for a double is between a tight/aggressive and a loose/aggressive behavior, depending on the volatility of a position. Basically, it is better to double in as to double out. Cash game is different to match. First explore cash game decisions.
And it is like Casper van der Tak said on BGO. Checker play is basic. You need it, to exploit the maximum out of a good cube decision, except a pass.

Thanks for the great advice, everyone. I clearly have a lot to learn. But everything written above makes sense to me, and you all make some very good points. I think the more I play, the more I'll "feel out" these situations naturally, but some of the objective advice given above will be very helpful in learning this stuff.

The 8 point is one. After you have cleared the 9 and 10 points, and played the spares off the 8 point, you will be in a position where a double against a well-timed backgame may be appropriate. You will have many rolls that leave a shot, but many others that clear the point safely. Often your opponent will have a take before you roll (or a close take/pass), but if you roll instead, and clear the 8 point, he will have to pass. You will lose your market.

That's the rule. But rules are for intermediates. Use them, but learn to see patterns and overall positions. Rather than blindly applying a rule to the current position, hone your ability to foresee what positions are likely to follow from the current one, and play accordingly. This position is a case in point. Unless the Jacoby Rule forces your hand, there is no need to double this game. The future for Red is already plain. Unless you let him off the hook by doubling, he will lose plenty of gammons!