I was reading through a thread at bgonline: link

I think it's actually one thread in a recent flurry of threads discussing the state of backgammon in the US. There were some threads about ABT rankings and that sort of thing as well. It is my understanding that the bgonline forum consists of many world class players (the types of people who would care about something like ABT ranking).

The fundamental questions: Why isn't backgammon popular in the US and what can be done to change it? I've attended two tournaments, and the average age is... old. My guess is that most of these guys were playing in the 70s during backgammon's US boom years, and they just never stopped.

I figure that the average poster here is relatively young and probably on average at the lower end of the talent pool. (Of course this is not directed as an insult to the forum, but let's face it -- this forum draws a somewhat small pool of primarily poker players. There are probably fewer than a dozen people playing along with Robertie's weekly problems. There's no way the average poster here can be that good when I'm 10% of the posters!) I also think that the view from our side is much different than the view from theirs, and so it might spark some interesting conversation. At least, I hope it will.

What drew you to backgammon, and what do you think would make it more popular? Have you ever played at a club or a big tournament? What about how backgammon is currently done (at either a club or big tournament) fails to connect with more people?

For the non-US players (I'm guessing it's primarily European players), how popular is it wherever you are? If you think backgammon is somewhat popular over there, what do you think draws in players?

One problem with playing backgammon at something like a tournament (which I have never done) is the variance. I put up with it at poker for the money, but going to a backgammon tournament and getting beaten up by the dice doesn't sound like much fun to me. One of the main reasons I enjoy the game as much as I do is that all the games I play online can be analysed afterwards by GNU, thus showing me who the "real" winner was and criticising my play. One of the reasons bridge became so popular is the advent of duplicate bridge, which sharply reduced the variance and let people see who was actually good at the game. Bridge is also a more social game, which helps.

I live in Australia. A decent number of people know the rules of the game, but a very small minority take it seriously. I think there's a little organised play in Sydney but where I live in Adelaide clubs, tournaments etc are unheard of.

Edit: I just read the bgonline thread and those entrance fees seem ludicrously high.

How do you not know more about the scene in Australia? I'm in Melbourne and have flown over for the SA Open the last two years. The Adelaide club meets at the Hilton Hotel in the city on Tuesday nights:

http://www.sydbg.uniq.com.au/adelaide.html
http://www.sydbg.uniq.com.au/clubs.html#adelaide

One of Adelaide's three major tournaments is on this weekend:

http://www.sydbg.uniq.com.au/images/...ent%202009.pdf

Newcastle properly has the best run and attended club in Australia, while Melbourne has a decent club too. I have just branched out and started my own club in Carlton, a little north of the city.

I read a lot at bgonline, but I really wish Stick would run a proper forum instead of something that passes ca. 1995. Yes, many posters there are absolute world class. Stick is a brilliant player, as is Neil Kazaross and Richard Munitz (Monaco semis a couple years ago).

I feel that too many younger players compare backgammon to poker, think, heck, there's a truck load more money in poker, and thus dismiss backgammon outright. Personally, I don't see why people can't appreciate and play both games.

I'll admit I've been really slack following Robertie's problems, but that is not because I don't really value the time and effort he puts in, I've just been slack the last few months.

I was taught backgammon when I was about 25, and I was really bad. Then I didn't play again for like 8 years. In between, I started playing poker, and read that many poker players were former backgammon players. What really got me interested was stumbling across the short-lived UK web show Gammon Night Live with Kara Scott and John Clark. They had Chris Bray on one episode, and I bought his books, then started getting more serious about the game.

I have played regularly at a club, have played at tournaments in Melbourne, Adelaide, the Gold Coast and the ABT Las Vegas Open. I even (somehow) managed to win two trophies at the Las Vegas event last year! In the next couple months, I will decide whether to go back to Las Vegas for the tournament in early November.

It is frustrating that there is a noticeable generation gap with backgammon players, and I find that in Australia, the older brigade are running the scene. I have my concerns about how backgammon is run in this country, and my opinions have gotten me into trouble, probably more because how I said it rather than what I said. Hence, I no longer play at the club in Melbourne and have started my own club. It's a work in progress. I want the game to become more professional in Australia, and we are long way behind the relative professionalism of the American Backgammon Tour. And I haven't even mentioned the resurgence of the game in Europe.

Now, how to make the game more appealing? Given that most players in Australia are older, and male, I feel that some clubs here are not very inviting to new, young or female players. I've seen it with my own eyes. Many older players are rather set in their ways and resist the suggestions of newer and younger players. I am doing my little bit to forge a new wave of interest in the game, by listening to what new players have to say, and bouncing my suggestions off them. I am finding that there a lot more females interested in backgammon than I would have thought.

One last thing I will add to improve the game is move the World Championships out of Monaco. Las Vegas is the perfect home for the largest and most prestigious annual backgammon tournament. But that wouldn't go down too well with the Europeans, so perhaps alternate the World Championships each year between Las Vegas and a European city.

I started playing about a year and a half ago. One of the guys I work with plays at the open level at regional tournaments.

There's a club out here that plays once a week. It starts at 7:00 and if you go deep you might be there until midnight (in a 16 person single elimination format, matches to 7 points) because some of the players there play extremely slowly. Also, (almost) everyone there is old. Also, they play in the back room of a bar, and it seems extremely sketchy the first time you go there. (Of course, once you get to know the guys -- all guys -- it's not as big of a deal.)

I've played in two Vegas tournaments, playing at the beginner level ($50 entry fee). I think there were probably about 25 people there each time. Some of them were regular beginner-bracket people (people who want to play but have no ambition to move up or anything), but a couple were just people who happened to be in town and heard about it.

There's clearly an intimidation factor, and I think the money is part of it. The doubling cube is another factor (most people don't use the cube if they play casually).

I also don't think there's a good pathway to advancement. The beginner tournament is just sort of off to the side and nobody at the other levels could care less if they disappeared. Maybe a beginner's seminar or simultaneous backgammon exhibition (like simultaneous chess... though the mechanics of that might be a little tough) or basically anything to make those people feel like they were a welcomed part of the community and encouraged to play more.

As it stands, you need to be ambitious enough to make the jump from the $50 entry to a $250 entry fee all on your own. Nobody that I've played against there seems to be the type of personality who would be willing to go 5x on the stakes for something they would like to do very casually.

Hmmmm... we might have played each other there. I seem to recall playing against an Aussie, and I don't think there were *that* many Aussies playing.

I believe I was the only Australian at that event, although an Aussie did cash at an earlier ABT event last year. Assuming Aaron is your name and W is not the initial for your surname, then yeah, I probably did play you and I have the scorecard in front of me (7-2).

Yeah I do think there are a few beginners that are happy to stay at that level, for one reason or another. I find that many people have no idea about the doubling cube, especially tavli players that have never needed to know about it. Doubling is not covered extensively in backgammon literature and I think only two books have been written exclusively on doubling.

I do believe that some beginners do feel a certain amount of intimidation, especially against an aggressive player and one that cubes early. As someone who has played his fair share of live poker, I didn't find it to be an issue for myself, and I tried to put out some reverse tells if my opponents were paying attention. I wasn't fussed about paying $50, and if I have to pay $250 for Intermediate next time, again, I'll be happy for the experience. I can use my poker bankroll to fund playing backgammon tournaments.

There was a beginner's seminar in Vegas, down the back on the Saturday I believe, but it was really for absolute beginners. I stayed the distance just to be polite. I think a lecture by an Open player aimed at Intermediate players would be more valuable as most players are at an Intermediate level and wanting to improve their game. As the largest tournament on the ABT calendar, the Las Vegas Open should seriously consider holding a lecture or two early in the piece. The tournament runs for five days and I found I had little to do on the first couple days. I'd be happy to pay $100 for a group seminar or two.

UK author and columnist Chris Bray conducts seminars in England, I would love to be present for one of those. With clocks being a major discussion point in the US this year, I know many experienced players are playing some casual side games with those unfamiliar with playing with a clock to get them a little more comfortable with the idea.

Nope. W is in fact my last initial. I do know that there was another Aaron there (who plays at the club here), but I can't remember his last name at the moment. His girlfriend hangs around when he plays, if that rings a bell at all.

Maybe it was in the Spring that I played that Aussie, or maybe we didn't actually play but simply had a little chat while we were waiting for our opponents... oh well.

I think poker people (myself included) are more comfortable putting up the money because we're used to doing it, but you're not going to draw many new people outside the gambling community with a jump in price like that. It's like limit hold'em in Vegas these days. You can find 2/4 and 3/6 games with random touristy drifters, and then there's basically nothing until you get to 15/30. Since nothing feeds the 15/30 games, it's living off of those few people who come specifically looking for it.

I didn't even know about the beginner's seminar. If it wasn't posted on the webpage with the other events, their advertising sucks. If it was, then I just didn't see it (I wasn't really looking for it, though).

I agree with the idea of the intermediate level seminar. I think it adds to that pathway of advancement. I've heard an idea of having the championship on closed circuit TV with a commentator or two, just to give some extra excitement to it. But unless someone at that level really steps up, it's not going to happen.

I'm 29. How exactly would I know?

FWIW, I googled "adelaide backgammon" before making the post to see if I was wrong, and the first two words I read on result #1 were "sydney backgammon". After that I stopped reading. Amusingly, result #4 is now this thread. Not exactly stunning internet presence.

I may or may not make it in for the tournament on Sunday. I'll see if any of my friends want to play.

I'm a 24 year old Belgian student who picked up this game after hearing several poker players (specifically gus and magriel) were also backgammon players. I started out maybe 8 months ago, I don't really know. I first played jellyfish only, then moved on to gnub so i could analyse my plays. There are 3 backgammon clubs in Belgium as far as I know, but I've never been able to go at one of them (2 are too far and the one closest by only comes together once a month, and I haven't had the opportunity to go). In the mean time though, I did manage to get both my sister and one of my best friends to get hooked on the game as well. But the main games played here (for cash) are all card games (whistle and poker basically). I would love to see bg become more popular here, but I don't see it happening any time soon (f.e. it took me 3 months for my best friend to play a game of bg against me, and another 3 months before he started playing on his own).
I also assume that the bg-scene in Belgium is also mainly older males, based on the pics I saw from the club websites.

I was introduced to the game in my early college years and I was immediately stunned by the skill level required to master the game. At that time Peter Jes had just won the world championship beating fellow Dane John Sjølin in the final. This certainly led to a rise of popularity of backgammon in Denmark. Most of the backgammon action was going on in Copenhagen were I lived (and still live for that matter).

Being able to see and play against players of that level can inspire most new players and I certainly got inspired too.

In Denmark (small country with 5.5M people) we have a national team tournament going on for the 15th year (could be more) which is attended by almost every active tournament backgammon player. From the top of my head I think there were like 80 teams participating last season. A season consists of 22 matches against other teams spread out from September to February the following year. We have around 800 active tournament players at the moment.

To participate you need to be a member of a club or a team (very small club only consisting of 5-8 players).

On top of that there are individual tournaments every week around the country all year around ranging from small local tournaments with 20 participants to international events as Nordic Open with up to 500 participants.

I don’t know how many tournament I have played but it’s a lot. Currently I have 6830 TMP (experience points) meaning that I have played matches in official Danish tournaments to a total of 6830 points.

As you might have guessed backgammon is very popular in Denmark compared to almost anywhere else in the world. There might be a good reason for that.

It is extremely common that if you are a small group of people sharing a common interest you make a club where you can enjoy you hobby or what ever. We have this idea that we have to stick together and teach the weaker players and be taught by the better. This is all for free of course. You will see chouettes with world class players playing for $1-$5 a point just to have fun and learn. This makes it very easy for new players to rise through the ranks without being hustled for every dime he has on the way.

I think that is the reason why there are a ridicules number (percent wise) of world class players in our small country.