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Backgammon Forum hosted by Bill Robertie. Discussion of anything related to backgammon: strategy, problems, books, clubs, and tournaments.

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Old 05-08-2017, 12:31 PM   #1
Keir
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eXtreme gammon and back games

How good is eXtreme gammon at back games?
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:01 PM   #2
Robertie
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Re: eXtreme gammon and back games

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Originally Posted by Keir View Post
How good is eXtreme gammon at back games?
It's extremely good, although it makes a few more errors than in other phases of the game.
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:25 AM   #3
Keir
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Re: eXtreme gammon and back games

How often does xg at the strongest setting adopt backgame tactics? I've heard that neural networks very rarely play them.
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:55 AM   #4
Robertie
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Re: eXtreme gammon and back games

Based on my own practice sessions, XG will find itself in a backgame in 1 or 2 games out of 100. Most of those will be high backgames, of the 5-4, 5-3, 4-3, 5-2 variety. I'm not sure I've ever seen XG involved on the wrong side of a 1-2 backgame.
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:00 AM   #5
Keir
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Re: eXtreme gammon and back games

So is that a strong indication that human players should avoid low back games?
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:31 PM   #6
Robertie
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Re: eXtreme gammon and back games

Yes, although that's not news. It's been a long time since 'playing for the back game' was a viable style. Having said that, sometimes the dice don't give you a choice.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:06 PM   #7
Keir
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Re: eXtreme gammon and back games

If "sometimes the dice don't give you a choice", how does xg avoid them? You say you've never seen "xg involved on the wrong side of a 1-2 backgame"; and for xg to play any kind of low backgame appears to be extremely rare judging from your comment - much less than 1 in a 100 games.
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Old 05-13-2017, 05:38 AM   #8
bleep69
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Re: eXtreme gammon and back games

I think its a question of a combination of less than optimal play and some poor dice. I often think to myself that xg never gets into the positions I find myself in, yet pinpointing the exact move it all went wrong is not easy even in retrospect.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:48 AM   #9
Robertie
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Re: eXtreme gammon and back games

XG avoids more back games than I do because it plays better at certain critical junctures in middle games where both sides have several men back. It's able to spot danger earlier than I can.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:34 AM   #10
Keir
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Re: eXtreme gammon and back games

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertie View Post
XG avoids more back games than I do because it plays better at certain critical junctures in middle games where both sides have several men back. It's able to spot danger earlier than I can.
Well clarified, thank you.
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:11 PM   #11
yogiman
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Re: eXtreme gammon and back games

Maybe another reason that XG avoids backgames is that positions can get very messy, positions it is not able to assess properly.
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