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Doubles in a Holding Game Doubles in a Holding Game

08-23-2009 , 12:36 PM
I always seem to play doubles wrong when I'm in a holding game. I think the issue is that the doubles allow me to change the complexion of my holding game more freely than non-doubles, but I'm struggling to understand what the best holding game positions actually are.

Take this position for example; red to play deuces.



20/18(2) seems pretty much forced, but I'm not sure what to do after that. There seem to be several competing interests that I'm not sure how to reconcile:
1) getting shots (arguing for keeping the spare on the 22pt)
2) preserving my timing (arguing for brining it up)
3) keeping the 13pt as long as possible (arguing for brining it up) ??

I had played 22/18 thinking that 2 & 3 were more important for the long-run; however this is apparently wrong... any suggestions on how to better understand these positions?
Doubles in a Holding Game Quote
08-23-2009 , 09:11 PM
Small doubles are often tough because there are like 100 reasonable moves.

I won't try to justify the "best" move, but 20/18(2) 22/18 seems clearly wrong because 1.) it doesn't do anything constructive (you can use the other two rolls elsewhere) and 2.) it makes things MUCH easier for your opponent (because it gives up coverage of the board) and 3.) It gives you some bad 6s on your next roll (pretty minor probably, I'm too lazy to work out all the scenarios).

So you have to reject that move IMO, and who knows after that. I'd probably play 20/16 (2), keeping everything connected and holding against the 11-point, and hope for the best.

As far as "how to understand" these sorts of positions, when you can stay flexible yourself and make things awkward for your opponent, you probably want to go with that (assuming I'm correct, of course).

Last edited by pineapple888; 08-23-2009 at 09:17 PM.
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08-23-2009 , 09:47 PM
Keep an eye on the race. You didn't mention it at all in your analysis. You're behind in the race, which means you're leaning more for getting a hit as your path to victory. This means you should keep that blot where it is.

After that, it's more of a mixed bag of ideas. Since you're looking for a shot at something, I'm inclined to stay on the bar point to block 6s and try to maximize the awkwardness. Moving out to the 16 point isn't so bad since you're blocking both 4s and 5s there.

Not every holding game comes down to blocking various rolls, but it's a good thing to keep in mind.
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08-24-2009 , 12:03 PM
Is slotting the 2-point any good here? So you could soon fortify your board? Or is it better to keep a spare on the 6-point?

After 6/2, I would then play either 20/18 (2), advancing the anchor (although I might like the 20-point better), so I could free my midpoint and still have good outfield coverage.

Or I could play 22/18 to also have excellent outfield coverage. Of course, it's now easier for him to play behind us in his board, but after stripping his 8-point, he still has to clear his outfield points, right?
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08-24-2009 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uberkuber
Is slotting the 2-point any good here? So you could soon fortify your board? Or is it better to keep a spare on the 6-point?

After 6/2, I would then play either 20/18 (2), advancing the anchor (although I might like the 20-point better), so I could free my midpoint and still have good outfield coverage.

Or I could play 22/18 to also have excellent outfield coverage. Of course, it's now easier for him to play behind us in his board, but after stripping his 8-point, he still has to clear his outfield points, right?
You're going about the problem backwards.

FIRST, figure out what path or paths you have to victory. THEN look at the merits of various moves. Without a gameplan, you're lost in the weeds.
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08-24-2009 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
You're going about the problem backwards.

FIRST, figure out what path or paths you have to victory. THEN look at the merits of various moves. Without a gameplan, you're lost in the weeds.
Well, the gameplan is to play a holding game and try to hit a shot. It's obvious at a glance that Hero is well behind in the race. I don't see how uberkuber's post indicates anything different.

Given that plan, competing goals and scenarios still remain.
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08-24-2009 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uberkuber
Is slotting the 2-point any good here? So you could soon fortify your board? Or is it better to keep a spare on the 6-point?

After 6/2, I would then play either 20/18 (2), advancing the anchor (although I might like the 20-point better), so I could free my midpoint and still have good outfield coverage.

Or I could play 22/18 to also have excellent outfield coverage. Of course, it's now easier for him to play behind us in his board, but after stripping his 8-point, he still has to clear his outfield points, right?
I think slotting is a very reasonable option.

But I don't much like 22/18 because it sacrifices some coverage AND the blot is now outside Villain's home board, making it more vulnerable, and I don't really see much of an upside to compensate for those concessions.
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08-24-2009 , 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple888
Well, the gameplan is to play a holding game and try to hit a shot. It's obvious at a glance that Hero is well behind in the race. I don't see how uberkuber's post indicates anything different.

Given that plan, competing goals and scenarios still remain.
Running the back checker into the outfield* (22/18) is going in the opposite direction of trying to hit a shot. Moving the checker up decreases the amount of coverage by giving White two more safe landing zones. If you're playing for the hit, then unless it's very dangerous gammonwise, you should leave the back checker in back.

* Running loose is even worse because you can't hit nearly as well if you're on the bar. The checker is pretty safe where it is, so why would you run into the outfield and put it at risk? Also, when you are stuck on the bar, you can't continue building up your board.
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