Match to 7, 0-0, centred cube, red to play 32.



There seem to be 3 reasonable plays:

5/2* 9/7: attack and slot the bar point
5/3 9/6: slot the 3 point (leaving just 2 fewer shots than attacking) and create a builder on the 6 point
17/12: play safe but passive

In my little GNU rollout here, slotting with 5/3 9/6 actually came out on top, and attacking lost badly to both slotting and being safe.

I can believe that attacking is worse than playing safe given white's 4 pt board, but why does the slotting play win then?? If we're going to take the risk of being hit anyway, why not attack and take away white escaping numbers?

In general, how often does it come up (in containment games or otherwise) that loose slotting beats out loose attacking?

Hi,

I dont think it comes up often. The funny thing about this position is that the 2 doesnt play nice for white.
For instance if he would have to play 62 or 42 now you could win extra games.
So with the slotting play you give him a good 1 which he also has on the other side of the board.
So the right theme here could be: Making use of the lack of playability.

greetings k.

This is an odd little position which looks like a containment problem because of the structure, but it's not. It's actually just a tactical problem about how your opponent can play his numbers.

Right now 6-2, 5-2, 4-2, and 3-2 are all destructive for White, either leaving a shot or forcing him to break a point. If you hit, they all become good or at least neutral numbers, while hitting leaves White with no really bad numbers. By leaving White alone and slotting, you improve your position while leaving White maximum self-destruct possibilities.

Wow, thanks for that! Totally didn't see how destructive the 2 was for white; makes total sense not to leave that possibility open for him.

So... how do I get better at noticing "tactical" issues like this in the future? Would it be fair to say that making an "off-theme" play (so to speak) due to wanting to keep a particular bad number open for the opponent happens most often in the late game, when my opponent is close to crunching? Or do you see issues like this come up in early and mid game to?

Seems like there must be a bit of an art involved in knowing whether to just play thematically or trying to exploit issues like these...

No easy answer. These are very difficult plays to spot, given that live backgammon is a fast-paced game.

Alright, thanks Bill-- "practice for years and years" it is

Interesting position, thanks for posting it.
I don't understand the benefit of slotting as opposed to just playing safe with a move like 17/12. Why is the 3 point important? Even if red makes the 3 point, it is still a broken 6 prime.

My guess is the fact that white is on the verge of crunching/leaving home board shots has something to do with it, just as it was with attacking not being the best play.

i.e. if red slots and white doesn't roll an ace, red will be in a good position to make a 4pt home board and/or hit a blot in white's home board after white rolls a 2, both of which are great for winning a containment game. And even if white does roll an ace and hit, white will need a 4 quickly thereafter to hop the broken 6 prime; without that, white will be crunching and leaving blots very soon, which would mean that for the rest of the game red may attack with impunity on both sides of the board.

So unless white jokers with 55, it seems almost win/win.

The theme I am going to try to apply in future containment games is to watch for situations where white is highly likely to crunch / leave shots in the next couple moves, and play under the assumption that this will happen-- or at least think twice about attacking loose if doing so will help white's timing. In this situation, making inner board points ASAP is clearly the best route if white does wind up crunching, for the win as well as the gammon.

I'd love to hear from experienced players whether this is a useful way of thinking about it.

I think you see the point,

greetings k.

43 is also an anti-joker and 33 is worst of all.

"Attacking" puts a checker where you don't want it (the 2pt, too deep) and minimizes bad rolls for your opponent.

Note that getting hit with an ace is not the end of the world as opp is usually behind a broken 5 prime and will usually crash.