I admittedly have not read a backgammon book so this question is probably very basic.

I have been using some backgammon training software to try to improve. Playing single games against the expert computer, it will normally prompt me to offer the cube when I'm about +.60 or so in equity, and take the opponent's cube if I'm no worse than -.80 or so provided my position is still workable.

Coming from a poker background, it makes more sense to me to try to just "get the money in ahead" and take much smaller edges than that, and drop when I'm behind.

So why wait til you have such a significant lead in the match, and conversely, take when you're so far behind in equity? Is it because a single roll can swing the equity so much, and the decision is more position-based rather than pure equity? Or is it because of the value inherent in the fact that you still might win the game? In the process of typing this I've just realized - that's probably it. Haha.

Also, why would one perfect computer ever take the cube offered by another perfect computer?

Thanks in advance.

Skinny, your question is a good one that every person who plays backgammon at some point in his life asks. I will answer part of it in two steps.

Step one. Why double early if you know your opponent will still take the cube when his position gets even worse than it is now? Why take more risk by doubling early and giving him the cube when you still have time to improve your position and not be worried that your opponent will drop.

Step two. At the beginning of the game, each player needs to get to 75% winning chances to win the game. Why? Because once a player gets higher then 75% he sends the cube and the other player passes. However, if you send the cube early, then now you need to get to 100% to win because your opponent owns the cube. Meanwhile he only needs to get to 75% to win. So if you send it early, and then you get to be an 80% favorite at some point, he can still win the game 20% of the time. Or if you send it to early, he is closer to his 75% win point where he can recube you out of the game.

This is a very simple explanation but it should be enough to see why sending a cube when you are ahead in the game 55% or something is a very bad idea. Owning the cube is very powerful and it is worth a lot to keep access to it.

Cool, that's a good way of looking at it. Thanks for the response!

If you only had 49% equity, would you fold to a small bet? Hopefully not. You've got more to consider than just your equity. You have to think about the size of the bet and the size of the pot. Folding when you have pot odds to call and chase is a mistake. So... that, but backgammon words.

It has nothing to do with equity swings, just equity. You might want to read up on the doubling window. It basically tells you when it's mathematically correct to double, and then take/drop, depending on the % of wins/losses/gammon wins/gammon losses that there are (and also match score). I'm sure someone else here can point you to a good article.

Absolutely, yes.

-- Edit: Ummmm... it helps if I don't skip words when reading. WHY a computer would do it is because dropping has a lower value than taking.

Edit 2: If you drop a double, you always lose 1 point. but if you take, you might lose only .9 points (on average). So why give up on that tenth of a point?

This is one of the hardest truths of backgammon to really understand in your gut. I still find I have to say to myself, "I'm taking this [cube] not because I expect to win, but because I expect to lose!" Three times in four (and even more often on a "live" cube), I expect to lose when I take.

When the fact of a loss materializes, it is important not to second-guess the take. Don't say, "I should not have taken." Don't get down on yourself for "making a mistake." If your judgement was good to begin with, then you must understand that losing was part of the deal.

All of this is easy to understand intellectually. Chewing on the fact of a double-game loss, and not having it get stuck in your craw is what is hard.

Mike

forget poker strategy when it comes to BG (most of the time) , especially with the OP. A early cube is a big gift in BG.

"You lose less by taking the cube(at the right time) than you would by dropping every time."


When you learn the strategy in quote above you'll see what i mean, there are much stronger players here than me, who also write better than can explain this to you.


take care and good luck, its tuff action,