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Beaver/Raccoon Question Beaver/Raccoon Question

02-17-2011 , 12:17 PM
I want to make sure my understanding of this rule is correct.

The beaver rule only applies money games and is not used in tournaments. The beaver rule as described below is how it should be played assuming the players haven't agreed to something non-standard before hand, such as playing a match to 11 points while using the beaver rule (i.e. two players playing for money can do whatever they like but need to agree to the rules before hand). The rules below are used when no prior discussion has occurred.

When player A doubles player B can drop, take, or beaver. When player B Beavers she accepts the cube, calls "beaver", turns the cube to the next highest number, and she retains the cube. For example, the cube is in the center and player A decides to double player B. Player B accepts the cube, which will now be at 2, and player B now calls "beaver" then turns the cube to 4 and she keeps the cube.

Player A can then reassess the board, as it is likely he screwed up somewhere. If he decides, "Oh yeah, I screwed up." then he can drop the beaver. That is, he pays player B the value of the game prior to the "beaver", so in our example if player A decided to drop when beavered then he would pay player B for a game with the cube set at a value of 2.

On the other hand, player A may decide that his initial double was marginal and just decide to accept the beaver, or he could decide that his initial double was correct so now he calls out "raccoon". When raccoon is called the cube is doubled again with the player who owns the cube retaining the cube. For example, the cube starts in the center, player A doubles, so now the cube is at 2 and owned by player B. Player B calls "beaver", turns the cube to 4 and keeps the cube. Player A calls "raccoon", so the cube is turned to 8 and player B keeps the cube. At this point player B can accept the raccoon and play with a cube of 8, or she can drop and payoff player A with the cube at 4, or she can beaver again. If she decides to beaver again then she calls the name of another large rodent -- otter, muskrat, hedgehog, Mickey Mouse, doesn't really matter. This re-beavering can go on until the players get tired of beavering.

Once all this beavering is completed the original player (player A) will roll the dice and make his move. Player B, who still owns the cube, will now reassess the board and decide if she wants to ship the cube back over to player A. So here is a typical situation, the cube is in the center and player A doubles, so now player B has the cube at 2. Player B beavers with player A accepting, so now player B has the cube at 4. Player A completes his roll and player B redoubles giving the cube to player A with a value of 8 on the cube.

That is my long-winded understanding of this rule. I'm pretty sure the description of the rules is correct, but I'm not so sure about how standard these rules are in practice. I imagine most players use the beaver rule, but I'm not as sure about raccoons, and even less sure about otters, etc. It probably isn't all that often that a "raccoon" is ever called, and even less likely that an "otter..." would be called.

Would anyone who plays for money, at clubs, etc. care to comment? Are the rules as I described them typical? Would you be wondering WTF if your opponent called out "otter". Would it be abnormal to only allow beavers? (i.e. the use of raccoons, etc., would need to be stipulated before the game.) Is it assumed that the beaver rule is in effect (or is it affect) when playing for money? Any other comments?
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02-17-2011 , 12:29 PM
Yea I don't understand the beaver rule, seems useless. I've only encountered the need for beavering against EXTREMELY weak opponents or ones who don't care (double right away).
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02-17-2011 , 12:48 PM
In my [limited] experience beavers/racoons mainly come up against tilting players who make doubles in marginal/bad spots either through the strange mist that descends over our thinking when tilting, or just against very weak players and/or big gamblers who just like to keep upping the stakes in strange spots.

It's a useful tool for drastically increasing (or losing if you are wrong) your equity in certain spots, mainly due to the counter-intuitive nature of many cube decisions, where something that appears a clear double is often much closer that it seems.

Cash play can often be a lot more complex than just playing the checkers, and beavering et al also gives players a much more interesting doubling environment, which can both aid stronger players in the long run, but also give weak/tilting players the kick they require when wanting to chase losses or simply gamble as much as possible. However you look at it, beavering and then getting obviously ahead and sending back a big cube gives a huge kick for any player in a cash game, and this both aids the good player over time, as well as giving the fish a larger buzz.

Edit - and yeah it's not standard in any of the games I play in to ever go above racoons, and even a racoon is pretty rare to see.

Last edited by Wamy Einehouse; 02-17-2011 at 01:03 PM.
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02-17-2011 , 12:54 PM
It is definitely not standard to let the beavering/raccooning.... etc. go on indefinitely and imo there's no universally accepted standard if nothing has been agreed on beforehand (assuming you are playing someone for the first time) so this should always be adressed before you start playing.

Mostly in the games I play in beaver/racoon and no more than that seems to be the standard.


EDIT: Also good to have clarified that the jacoby rule is in use (even though this should be considered standard without agreement beforehand).

Last edited by mute; 02-17-2011 at 01:14 PM.
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02-17-2011 , 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daithi
For example, the cube starts in the center, player A doubles, so now the cube is at 2 and owned by player B. Player B calls "beaver", turns the cube to 4 and keeps the cube. Player A calls "raccoon", so the cube is turned to 8 and player B keeps the cube.
This is incorrect. If player A racoons, he now retains the cube. The advantage that comes with a beaver is that you get to keep the cube, and racooning is just a re-beaver, so the player racooning now gets to keep the cube. So in your scenario above, if cubing stopped at player B's beaver, then she would keep the cube, but since player A racooned, he now gets to keep the cube.
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02-17-2011 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoChinDeluxe
This is incorrect. If player A racoons, he now retains the cube. The advantage that comes with a beaver is that you get to keep the cube, and racooning is just a re-beaver, so the player racooning now gets to keep the cube. So in your scenario above, if cubing stopped at player B's beaver, then she would keep the cube, but since player A racooned, he now gets to keep the cube.
No, he got it right.
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02-17-2011 , 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mute
No, he got it right.
Oh, really? Didn't know that. I stand corrected. Interestingly enough, gnubg plays this incorrectly, then. In gnubg, the racooning player keeps the cube.
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02-17-2011 , 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoChinDeluxe
Oh, really? Didn't know that. I stand corrected. Interestingly enough, gnubg plays this incorrectly, then. In gnubg, the racooning player keeps the cube.
On 8? If maximum number of beavers is set to 3, then the player originally being doubled can get in an extra beaver which the original doubler can only pass or accept (but then the cube would be at 16).

EDIT: To clarify; the guy who was originally doubled (and made the first beaver) always gets to keep the cube no matter how many beavers/raccoons etc. happens after that.

Last edited by mute; 02-17-2011 at 03:29 PM.
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02-17-2011 , 06:30 PM
Mute is correct -- the player who was originally doubled will keep the cube through any series of beavers and raccoons.

If you're playing live at a club, most clubs will have their own informal policy. The most common is that beavers and raccoons are permitted, but that's it. If the two players mutually consent, however, they can do pretty much whatever they want.

Beavers are a great rule IMO, which liven up a cash game considerably, especially if the bartender can be counted on to pour generously.
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02-17-2011 , 09:18 PM
I now have a much better understanding of how this rule is used in practice, and I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded.
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02-18-2011 , 12:13 AM
Those above that have not seen many beavers and raccoons have surely notplayed in many live chouettes. As the night wears on, and people get drunk and stuck there can be many beavers and raccoons. As a solid player, you should rarely get beavered, and when you do you should raccoon. As Bill said, it is standard to see these but I have heard legends of cubes getting twisted to 128 and 256 off this action in some fairly large games.
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