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Old 10-18-2017, 03:49 PM   #1
deh
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20pt holding game, no mid, 2 variants

A:
White - Pips 111

Black - Pips 91
Black on roll. Cube action?
Created with www.BGdiagram.com




B:
White - Pips 111

Black - Pips 90
Black on roll. Cube action?
Created with www.BGdiagram.com

What is your thought process in these 2 positions?



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Old 10-18-2017, 09:18 PM   #2
e_holle
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Re: 20pt holding game, no mid, 2 variants

In the first position there are a few rolls that will leave white with a shot. Black is still winning, but perhaps not as much as in the second position. I'm not good enough to judge if black is too good to double in either case.

I would double in either position. As white, I think I can take it in the first position; just enough juice. I probably would take in the second, also, but just by asking about them, I suspect the second will turn out to be a pass.
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Old 10-19-2017, 02:22 PM   #3
thecantonkid
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Re: 20pt holding game, no mid, 2 variants

White isn´t guaranteed a shot, so I think it´s a double/pass in both cases. In fact the only difference I can spot is that in the first case, there is a disastrous double six for black.
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Old 10-19-2017, 03:20 PM   #4
e_holle
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Re: 20pt holding game, no mid, 2 variants

No, not guaranteed a shot, but if white does hit, gammon chances go up significantly, I think.

I've waited before checking the position with GNUBG or XGM. I think I'll do that later today.
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:59 AM   #5
RolldUpTrips
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Re: 20pt holding game, no mid, 2 variants

Second is definitely a pass. Those positions are only takes when the last outfield point is the 11 (see backgammon encyclopedia vol 1 IIRC). Position 1 is obviously stronger because of the blot, but I'm honestly not sure how much...I guess I would pass OTB but wouldn't be shocked if it were a take.
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Old 10-20-2017, 10:57 AM   #6
e_holle
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Re: 20pt holding game, no mid, 2 variants

Here are the GNU evaluations of the two positions.

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