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20pt holding game, no mid, 2 variants

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10-18-2017 , 03:49 PM

deh

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 202

A:
White - Pips 111

Black - Pips 91
Black on roll. Cube action?
Created with www.BGdiagram.com

B:
White - Pips 111

Black - Pips 90
Black on roll. Cube action?
Created with www.BGdiagram.com

What is your thought process in these 2 positions?

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10-18-2017 , 09:18 PM

Eric

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 13,856

In the first position there are a few rolls that will leave white with a shot. Black is still winning, but perhaps not as much as in the second position. I'm not good enough to judge if black is too good to double in either case.

I would double in either position. As white, I think I can take it in the first position; just enough juice. I probably would take in the second, also, but just by asking about them, I suspect the second will turn out to be a pass.

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10-19-2017 , 02:22 PM

thecantonkid

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 515

White isn´t guaranteed a shot, so I think it´s a double/pass in both cases. In fact the only difference I can spot is that in the first case, there is a disastrous double six for black.

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10-19-2017 , 03:20 PM

Eric

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 13,856

No, not guaranteed a shot, but if white does hit, gammon chances go up significantly, I think.

I've waited before checking the position with GNUBG or XGM. I think I'll do that later today.

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10-20-2017 , 03:59 AM

RolldUpTrips

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,334

Second is definitely a pass. Those positions are only takes when the last outfield point is the 11 (see backgammon encyclopedia vol 1 IIRC). Position 1 is obviously stronger because of the blot, but I'm honestly not sure how much...I guess I would pass OTB but wouldn't be shocked if it were a take.

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10-20-2017 , 10:57 AM

Eric

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 13,856

Here are the GNU evaluations of the two positions.

Spoiler:

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