Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
1. Everything that exists was either a) created by something, or b) always existed.
Everything that exists either a) was created by something, or b) was not created by something.
Everything that exists either a) has always existed, or b) has not always existed.
You'd agree we can support these via the law of excluded middle, right?
So my first question would be to ask how you support your proposition? Sure, it might be true, but is it?
Plus, your language is loaded (perhaps not deliberately). Why not "caused by something" instead of "created by something"? Perhaps because it doesn't lead to your desired conclusion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
2. Since (afaik) I have not ALWAYS existed, I am a created thing.
What do we mean by 'creation', exactly?
I could argue that since matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed (as far as we know), then nothing is ever actually created - all that happens is a rearrangement of what already exists.
This is a pretty bold position to take, though, and it's probably not what people typically mean - when we say that
a creator creates in the same sense as a painter paints and a builder builds. We are just describing this rearrangement of what already exists.
This leads me to my next criticism: the kind of creation that it sounds like you are talking about is in fact the
bringing matter and energy into existence kind of creation, not the
rearrangement of what already exists kind of creation that we attribute to human agent creators. An equivocation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
3. If I am a created thing, then I had a creator.
If by creator you mean liken to a human agent (in the same way as the painter / builder / creator labels), this does not follow from your proposition ("created by something"). Also is the issue about using loaded language (compare to "caused by something" / "I had a cause").
e.g. Does a diamond formed under pressure and time have a creator in that sense? You won't get pushback if you just left it as it has a cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
4. My creator was either a)itself created, or b) always existed.
See my response to 1.