Italian Worshiper Tears Both Eyes Out at Mass

Fellow parishioners watched in horror as Aldo Bianchini, 46, used his bare hands to pull out both eyeballs. Bianchini later told surgeons, who were unable to save his vision, he heard voices that told him to do it.

No skeptic here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/on-fai...fAL_story.html

A jury on Thursday (Sept. 29) unanimously convicted an Oregon couple, Dale and Shannon Hickman, in the faith-healing death of their infant son.

The Hickmans are members of Oregon City’s Followers of Christ church, which has a long history of children dying from treatable conditions because their parents relied on faith healing rather than taking them to doctors.

When asked why he didn’t call 911 once he realized his infant son was failing, Dale Hickman responded, “Because I was praying.”

I'm not sure what you hope to prove by posting this stuff-- that prayer doesn't work?
You know as well as I do that I can respond with hundreds, if not thousands of testimonies of prayer working.
Would you like to have a copy-and-paste war?
Because that is your MO here, which is copy, then paste.
Others here are discussing issues with our own words, which you might want to try, or else don't be surprised if some just choose to put you on ignore.

Btw, the infant died because it was born premature.

Btw, the Bible clearly states that we are not to test the Lord.

That is correct. We have proven that prayer does not work.

It is not that prayer works some of the time. It is not that prayer works if you have enough faith. It is not that prayer works if you are not "testing" god. It is not that prayer works if it is already god's will. It never works. It is ritualistic form of talking to yourself.

If you have "hundreds, if not thousands of testimonies of prayer working", then why haven't you posted them already? What are you waiting for? Be sure to include names, dates, and documentation. This is your big opportunity to convert the multitudes.

Here is a copy and paste for you:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/on-fai...fAL_story.html

Prosecutors contended that the Hickmans knew their son was born dangerously premature and that he struggled from the beginning, giving them plenty of time to seek medical assistance. If they had done so, medical experts testified, there was more than a 99 percent change the baby would have survived.

The infant died because the parents were delusional. They actually believed people like you who claim that prayer works. People who claim to have "thousands of testimonies of prayer working".

Should we believe the medical experts?

"medical experts testified, there was more than a 99 percent change the baby would have survived"

Or should we believe you?

"Btw, the infant died because it was born premature."
- Doggg

You should post whatever you think is beneficial.

That is what I do. I post quotes from the bible. I post quotes from Wikipedia. I post news stories. I post videos of debates. I am not going to change what I do because of some pathetic threat from you to post "hundreds, if not thousands of testimonies of prayer working".

If I don't stop posting factual information without transcription errors, you will be forced to post ignorant testimonials from anonymous delusional people, who withhold medical treatment for their children rather than seek medical help.

lol

Btw, How soon do you need an answer?

Seriously?

In any case like this across the nation, each side presents medical experts that support their version of things.

I got an idea.

Let's trust all of them and see what happens.

You have already determined that all testimony that would be forthcoming is bunk, and made by delusional people.

Free thinking at its best?

Let me ask you a few questions.

Do you believe that if a woman aborts, and decides not to bring her child to term, she should be prosecuted for a crime?

Do you believe that late-term abortion should be criminalized?

If the child was 4 months old, say, and the mother's body ejected it then, and they threw it away, should they be prosecuted?
Is that wrong of them?

What about 12 weeks?

Do you know as a fact that their hearts are right with God?

Do you know the details of their personal lives?

Please outline how posting this story proves anything about anything.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/on-fai...fAL_story.html

A jury on Thursday (Sept. 29) unanimously convicted an Oregon couple, Dale and Shannon Hickman, in the faith-healing death of their infant son.

The Hickmans are members of Oregon City’s Followers of Christ church, which has a long history of children dying from treatable conditions because their parents relied on faith healing rather than taking them to doctors.

When asked why he didn’t call 911 once he realized his infant son was failing, Dale Hickman responded, “Because I was praying.”

Which part of unanimously convicted are you having trouble with?

Dogg, if you could respond to my post #197 that would be great. I understand if you don't want to.

Even if you don't think VPIP is open to it there are other users that certainly are interested in those testimonies.

I've already covered what I can cover about this subject.
Jesus said that limbs that "perish" are gone. There is no promised restoration.
Jesus indicates that it is better to lose your arm, and go to heaven, then to keep your arm, and go to hell, for example.

Plus, I don't see a distinction at all concerning the "sets".
All you need is one miracle to prove that naturalism is wrong, for our purposes.
"Why" God does anything is hardly anything I can answer.

Plus, we don't see too many people raised from the dead, also.
Some miracles require more faith than others, as Jesus constantly said "according to your faith" it will happen to you, when He performed miracles.
I believe that it is possible for a man's limb to be regenerated by faith in God, but who has that kind of faith?
It is possible to part a sea, and it was done only "once, "but who has that kind of faith?
I suppose it is not as hard to have faith if the Son of God is physically present in front of you.

Furthermore, a few people here have already indicated that this miracle would be a clincher for them: that they would believe if they saw a limb be regenerated by the hands of a faith healer.
We get into matters of free will, then; that God always works persuasively, and not coercively, so as to not violate our right to freely choose to serve or reject Him.

Most limb loss is due to diabetes.
The loss of a limb itself does not pose a threat to a being's life or eternal salvation.
There is almost always an underlying illness, of which amputation is a treatment for a side effect, in most cases.

Yours is really just an argument from silence, anyway.

God is not silent.

Psalm 19:1: The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows his handiwork.
It utters speech day after day.


I will also post a string of responses I found on the net:


You might also want to check out Nick Vujicic.

Nick

He was a pastor's son.
His testimony is extremely powerful.
This video alone suffices, imo, to answer the question.

What more, HE believes that God heals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWnma...eature=related

Does this mean Yahweh's miracles in the bible, which are equal to or more persuasive then healing a limb, corrosively took away the free will of those who saw them?

☐ part of God's plan
☒ genetic defect of the WNT3 gene in Chromosome 17
☒ perpetuating superstition and delusion

OK, so I don't understand your problem with sets. When you look at amputees as a set of human beings with a commonality (they are missing at least one limb), this set which has arbitrary defined is UNIFORMLY denied prayer requests. Not many people disagree up to here..

Now my question is why is it that all possible sets of people with obvious commonalities, the sets which are bound by what we currently understand as biologically impossible are uniformly and consistently denied any prayer request that would transcend what we currently understand as biologically impossible?


And to flip the coin: why is it that all possible sets of people with commonalities, the sets which are NOT bound by what we currently understand as biologically impossible are the miracles we chalk up to gods power from time to time?

It just seems so silly when you take a step back and look at the different sets and outcomes..

God can only exist in the otherwise possible or coincidental, but he cannot exist in the realm of supernatural, which is what we define god to be.


Circular logic, total junk. Garbage in, garbage out. Not too many people are Jesus (just 1), so of course we don't see many people raised from the dead (according to your bible, not what I believe just to be clear). I don't see how this statement helps, hurts or is even relevant to your stance..


So what you are saying is that amputees obviously have much less faith than any other set of people you can dream up? Well come to think of it Doggg, it seems like any set that you dream up whose common wish is bound by the limits of biology lack faith compared to other sets because after all if they had just enough faith at least one of them would get their miracle which transcends the bounds of biology, but alas that has never happened!

Well if I had seen Moses part the Red Sea that would be the clincher for me too. Come to think of it, didn't that happen? Were there matters of free will then? A limb regenerating is actually much less persuasive than a man enchanted with magic god powers parting an entire sea so a giant group of people can escape imminent slaughter. That is like orders of magnitude more extraordinary, and it's written in the very bible you cherish so obviously this is not an issue like you think it is. Did you forget this was written in your bible or something?


What does it matter that diabetes is the cause? Obviously some soldiers get their limbs blown off, car accidents happen, ect...

Argument from silence? rofl... Its funny you had the audacity to say that after you responded to me posting URLs like you can't even think for yourself / defend what you believe to be true/right.

The foolish man seeks happiness in the distance, the wise grows it under his feet.
--J. Robert Oppenheimer

With God, all things that are already possible are possible.

i think youre on to something KB. poker players are always saying ONE TIME for the miracle card. i think the dictionary needs to be updated fwiw

so what counts as a miracle from god these days?

Naturally occurring events that someone prayed for.

How about the events that people prayed for that didnt happen? Work of the old boy downstairs?

prediction: Dogggggg will miraculously forget that this thread exists.

Oh. You mean the children of God, the Jews-- the children of Abraham, who actually already believed in and worshiped God?

And there it is...

As expected, when the atheist is backed into a corner, he makes it personal, like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum because he can't get a candy apple.

But I've never before been accused as resorting to links and paste before. That is a new one. Especially curious as it refers to a post where the below-quoted is all of my words, which make up 80% of the post in question.