Your problem here is that you're blindingly quoting word-for-word out of a big old reference book. What you need to do is interpret it on a different level and find the meaning in it that you want. Of course the next step after that is to present it as fact to support your argument.

Yep. Welcome. There are only a few Christians here who will actually engage you in honest discourse without derailing. Concerto will typically reply only to state that your premise is unsound, or that you haven't asked a question worthy of an answer. I can honestly say I've not been able to glean anything from his posts in the time I've been posting here. I think he's a Christian, but he doesn't hold mainstream views. Other than that...I dunno.

For others, actually pinning them down on an opinion is impossible. Splendour will show up with cryptic answers, links to some bizzare ****, then duck and weave. When she finally gets backed into a corner, she drops the subject saying she doesn't want to argue with Atheists anymore then pops into another thread.

FYP

On April 27 of 1641 the archbishop of Zaragoza pronounced a judgment, thereby officially declaring the authenticity of the miracle.

Once upon a time in Spain, during the Spanish Inquisition.

What we know is that prayers do not inspire God to regenerate amputated legs. This happens despite what Jesus promises us

• If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.* [Matthew 21:21]
• If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.* [John 14:14]
• Ask, and it will be given you. *[Matthew 7:7]
• Nothing will be impossible to you. *[Matthew 17:20]
• Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. *[Mark 11:24]

By looking at amputees, we can see that something is wrong. Jesus is not telling the truth. God never answers prayers to spontaneously restore lost limbs, despite Jesus' statements in the Bible. Accepting this piece of factual information, rather than denying it, is the first step in understanding something extremely important about how prayer really works.

*Conditions and limitations apply. Not valid with any other coupon. Limit one per universe. Many will enter, few will win.

What does that say about your religion when god denies miracles just so they wont be classified as scientific discoveries. I'm sorry but that is one giant ****ing ego.

Think about it in sets...

Well obviously god hates amputees (at set) a lot more than the rest of other possible sets. If you can find a more unfavored set by god, you should post it ITT.

This thread is serious deja vu. IIRC, there was another thread with the exact same title.

This question has been around for quite some time. There's even a website:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

Nice rack.

Solving/adressing the issues of infinite space and time are perhaps more important for religious people trying to convert non religious ones.

No one has ever been able to logically explain to me what existed the day before God or how big the universe is. Religions (with a minor number of exceptions) also seem to take the very basic view that humans are superior and have souls whereas other species do not. This is wrong IMO. Either all species have souls or none do IMO.

And there is the question of all of the cruelty by mankind throughout human history. Is God just up there watching and choosing to not solve this? Ah yes, I forgot, our story is about a Superhero, God, and in all stories there is a villain and potential nemesis, and that is of course the devil. So when anything goes wrong we can use the devil as an explantion. Very convenient.

But then what about drought, famine, disease, floods, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions? Are these the work of the devil too, or is this simply bad build design by God?

Other questions:
Why are there so many different religions. They can't all be right.
Why do so few people get born into a religion but not change to a different religion?
Why did most of today's major religions "arrive" so late in human history? Could it have something to do with the development of writing materials, language and communication perhaps?
Why are most religions so male dominated in terms of how they are written and structured? Is this a clue?

As for miracles, I experienced one the other day.

I got it all in on the flop in a big pot in PLO with a set of 5s against a set of 9s and hit the case 5 on the river. Now that's a miracle.

Another word for religion is faith and there is a good reason for this. To be religious one needs a lot of faith, because it is impossible to logically argue that any religion is genuine or provable as all of them are full of holes when intellectually analysed in depth.

Science cannot explain everything either and the universe and the existence of human, plant and animal life is a miracle in itself. However, science is getting nearer to solving the route of all of these miracles day by day and in doing so IMO is casting increasing doubt over the trueness of most religions.

P.S. I respect people of all religions and faiths but I myself will never be convinced.

I don't believe you.

OP and 2/3 of the people ITT:

Haven't you ever heard of prosthetics? Just because God hasn't come down and magically restored somebody's limb doesn't mean he hasn't given amputees other means of living constructive lives.

People tend to take the idea of a miracle way to literally. Being given the knowledge to heal diseases, ailments, and so on is just as much a miracle as Jesus healing the blind or walking on water.

1. What existed the day before the phenomenon scientists refer to as the big bang? If God exists outside of time, then the answer is nothing.

2. Can you provide some reasoning for why you think other species have souls, or why it's an all-or-nothing deal?

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/motivations.htm
The scientific evidence is overwhelming. The idea that "God answers prayers" is strictly an artifact of human imagination.

Yet, if you talk to actively practicing Christians, they ignore the evidence. They will tell you that God is answering prayers for them every day. Christian bookstores and Christian magazines are filled with stories of answered prayers. Christians believe that God is reaching down out of heaven and answering billions of prayers on Earth for Christians.

It will be on PTR in hand histories.

This is a standard religious person's badly thought out answer IMO.

Prosthetics are a very recent invention and still only available to those in well off countries.

Also, citing a relatively small number of cases where an amputee (let's say in the year 1400 for argument's sake) has rebuilt their life does not excuse God (if he exists) for the vast majority of people (and animals) who throughout history have suffered pain, ill treatment and horrible injuries, violent death and short life expectancy.

I have always thought that in some ways religious people are the most intelligent and the most stupid people at the same time. They are the most intelligent because they conduct their daily lives using a sensible code of conduct (which is from a previously written handbook of correct human behaviour), but they are also the most stupid for not being able to work out or to accept that their religions that they have 100% faith in realistically have less than one in a billion chance of being true.

Perhaps religions have clues to the absolute truth within them but as separate entities they cannot be 100% correct because of the very obvious flaws of logic in them.

"God existing outside of time" is an illogical phrase IMO that you should break down and explain, otherwise it is completely meaningless. I mean aht was he doing, hanging around waiting for big bang to happen? And the when it did why did he choose Earth and not somewhere else?

I don't know if you have noticed but the human species are mammals. So what differentiates us from other mammals? Is it that we are clothed or can you give me some other examples?

Look back far into history and you will find that, to use a phrase that now we use to describe sub human behaviour, we used to "live like animals". Erm, that's because we are animals. Unless you think we are vegetable, mineral or gas.

By the way, these places called heaven and hell. Exactly what form do they take? Please describe them. And aren't they getting a bit full up?

What happens when God is in a marginal spot and you are borderline as to which one you should get admission to? Does he flip a halo to decide which way you are going?

Also, I find this thing about being able to be evil over a sustained period of time but then repenting, being given forgiveness and then getting entry into heaven plain wrong.

Perhaps consider that religions came about as an invention by man as a method of controlling the mass population. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence throughout history to lend weight to this argument.

Also consider that some religious organisations have a poor history of cruelty to the people. I mean why did this happen? Was this the devil's fault again.

If you are God then why have the devil at all? Why not just nuke him on day 1 after he refuses to repent? It would make things a lot easier. I was under the impression that God created everything. So why did he create the devil and why did he create the San Andreas fault?

What's your definition of a miracle?

Let me preface this, like I often do, but reminding you and others reading this thread that I will humbly concede that I do not have all (if any) solid answers to your responses. I am a 20 year old kid who avidly studies philosophy and theology, but I am not going to be able to absolutely defeat many, if any, of your arguments. With that said, let's proceed.

-Just because something is a recent invention does not mean it is or is not a miracle. Who are we to have any idea what God's intentions are? The point is that God does answer prayers--he just doesn't always answer affirmatively. There are millions of people that die of various diseases around the world. We have no idea whether or not it will be God's will to cure these people.

-Are you suggesting that God ought to take away our free will? In order for us to have free will, it is necessary for there to be evil in the world, because going against what God wants for us is part of being free to do what you want.

-What is illogical about God existing outside of time? Can you even answer for me what time is? God knows everything that happened before us. He also knows what will happen in the future. He is not bound by the same 'laws' that we are.

-With regards to the soul, my personal belief is that having a soul is the ONLY thing that separates us from the other animals. In many ways, I think a lot of people still do live like animals.

As for specific examples of what separates us from animals, there are many ideas. The awareness of the self is a big one, though many materialists don't believe there is a such thing. There are too many theories for me to go over ITT.

I don't have a solid definition of a miracle. I suppose one could argue that any answered prayer is a miracle, but that is awfully broad.

I don't think anybody ITT or anywhere else can say what a miracle is, so....

Wow, there is so much blah here that I can't even respond.

I want you to answer me one question, and then I might choose to tackle some of your statements here:

Can you prove to yourself that you exist?

You are correct, you have answered little or none of the questions posed.

My pet cat is very self aware and to a degree is aware of the world around her. She may not venture further than a mile radius away from her home but then neither would a 3 year old child.

My cat is also not aware of other lands far away, world history, science or Texas Hold'em but then neither is a 3 year old child. Until recently undiscovered tribes of the Amazon were also not aware of any of these things but presumably you think that the peoples of these tribes have a soul and that a 3 year old child has a soul.

My cat has many forms of self awareness. She understands hunger, fear, pleasure, pain, physical cold or warmth, the need to survive and how she fits in with interacting with humans, other animals and her environment.

So this is not a lot different to a human being.

Because animals can't talk and express themselves in the same way as humans does not mean that they are not self aware and not as important as us. For all we know they are more self aware than us and are looking down upon us thinking that we are the inferior species. In many ways we are.

Of course I cannot prove it. I may already be dead for all I know.

Let's be frank about this. The whole notion of God is preposterous.

Let's look at the story:

We have someone who happened to be human who is waiting around in a non place in a non existent period of time and then one day decides that he is bored so he will create a planet and plonk two humans on it and a random group of various other species. He designs the planet imperfectly which will cause all manner of difficulties for anyone living on it for the next few hundred million years.

At the same time he creates a universe that has various other planets and stars in it, none of which he ever bothers to put any life forms on.

Back on Earth...........

He decided to make some of the offspring of his human creations imperfect so that they fight amongst each other and commit sin. He also creates the devil so that at a future date when questioned as to why so many things have gone wrong he can blame it on him.

Fast forward a few hundred million years and he decides that enough is enough he'll create a son and send him in to give the population, (which by now is more evil and chaotic than at any time during the last few hundred million years), a chance to get back on the straight and narrow by following his son's teachings.

His son just happens to be a man, and those teachings just happen to be very biased in favour of men in general.

(The next 2011 years are full of wars, crime, hatred, genocide, famine and natural disasters.)

Not a great story IMO, and the book of it will never be a best seller!

I'll us John Travolta in Pulp Fiction's,"It's when God makes the impossible, possible." I think that's fair. I don't see how "knowledge to cure ailments" as you say qualifies.

Were you playing with a special deck?