This is certainly true. I wanted to believe long after I realized it was all a fairy tale.

Edit: Actually, that would make the statement false, not true.

and unbelievers dont believe because they dont want to believe. amirite or amirite?

Did you not read this?:

soontobepro, desire does not equal require.

Do any Christians have a response to this by the way, asked generally?:

Something like that. But if you want to be shown and are willing to submit to Him, you have to show Him that. An unbeliever can't just say give me a sign and they will always see it. Sometimes it is just not able to be seen by the unbeliever because they just are not spiritually ready, even though the sign might be happening at that very moment.

God did not just choose to show Himself to just anyone. There were requirements with that.

Well he sends you to Hell if you don't have "faith" in him specifically. It might as well be "required" that you have the proper "faith". It doesn't get much more "required" then 'eternal torture if you don't do it'.

You don't see the general unfairness in rewarding the faithful personality attribute only when it so happens to result in Christian faith? And sending people to mother****ing Hell when they "have faith", but in something besides Christianity?

something something free will, something something faith

There's at least one case in the bible where they were given proof as proof.

Edit: Thomas was given proof of Jesus' Resurrection.

No, it's not the same God. When you close your eyes at night and say your prayers, i doubt you're imagining a man with a falcon's head, wearing a headress that looks like a sun disk.


I doubt this very much. The reason you are a Christian is because of several environmental factors over which you had little control.


I don't know why I'm trying to enlighten you or anyone else who believes in this god or that god. It's pretty clear that old habits die hard when it comes to this subject. I mean, how can you call yourself a Christian and also recognize evolution as fact? The two are not mutually compatible, yet evolution is accepted by pretty much every single scientist in the world.

look, not everyone is mentally ready to take the red pill and accept that their religion is basically a cult. they can't handle the fact that their existence is not as important in the grand scheme of things. you know what i say to that? "Wake the **** up."

How can you show you are "willing to submit" to an entity that you do not believe in? ...and what is the difference between "spiritually ready" and "gullible" because both of these would seem to be factors which could enable someone to accept a lower standard of proof.

Your argument here presupposes that an atheist actually does believe in God but is willfully denying his existence - I doubt very much whether many atheists would characterise themselves this way.

I don't imagine a white male with a beard either, so what? If this comment has merit I cannot see it. My original statement stands.


Probably a factor, but people change religions all of the time. It is not like it is impossible. For me, the basic elements of Christianity work. You saying that is not the case hardly constitutes a counter argument.


Christianity and evolution are compatible without any problems. I realize not all Christians recognize that but so what? As far as enlightening me, I can honestly say you have not said anything in your post that I have not identified and thought through in detail years ago. If you break new ground for me I will let you know.

Based on your post I would say that you are the one who is sleeping. Your analysis is superficial and largely borrowed, showing no sign of original thought.

The point that I am making is that it could be a hindrance. If someone had a gun to my head and told me that I must love my wife, I might still love her the same, but I very well could build up resentment towards my wife as I feel that I am being forced into a situation that I did not choose.

I think that saying that if God sat in a throne in the sky and you knew he was the God of the bible, that this would have no effect of our "choosing", is ridiculous.

First, most of what you are describing here is man induced. And I think that this only proves my point. If you grew up around people that were under this sort of environment you would know that that these tactics do more harm than good.

Have you known any people that were in a controlled pushing "christian" environment then left that environment, say for college? I have known many, and the results only go to further my position.

Jib,

I am not quite sure what you mean by "worship", but would I change my life, no. I believe that following God's will makes for a better life internally now. By aligning ourselves with our intended purpose we are able to get the most out of life.

what do you mean by "get the most out of life"? For example, assume that Christianity is true, but there is no afterlife. What would you consider the optimal life?

The one that produces the most internal happiness and satisfaction.

hm, so would you mind expanding on why you believe this (that is following Christianity leading to happiness) is true?

From my personal experience, the opposite has been the case.

I haven't the slightest clue. It's you guys's word.

Mostly from personal experience. I believe that you and I have very different views on what it means to follow "Christianity", which would obviously lead to an inconsistent outcome.

how would it not have been beneficial for all of those in hell right now? playing favorites with eternal life on the line is pretty ****ed up iyam.

How do you know that it would have been? Most of the arguments ITT thread are saying that even if God did sit on a throne in the sky that does not mean they would follow him.

Your right some of the people God coerced like pharaoh never accepted him.

Pharaoh made his choice, God just used him after