remind me what that was, please

that no real life situations like these arise?

yeah that seems to be it...

I haven't brought it up because it's unnecessary and irrelevant to my argument

my argument hold even if situations like those actually arose in real life

I'm not surprised you don't realize it, I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

even though situations don't arise in real life that would reveal an esitmated likelihood of of say 0.000001% or even 0.01%...situations certainly do arise for say 1% or 5% or 25%

and even in these cases, everything I have said thus far holds

Yep, just because you behave like an atheist in a hypothetical, doesn't mean you don't behave like an atheist in the real world. Your behavior in the real world is what is relevant.

However, if you behave like an atheist in the hypothetical, It stands to reason you would in the real world too. So the test is good at confirming someone as an atheist.

If you say, "God Damit" when you hit you thumb with a hammer with the intention of calling God to damn your hammer, You are a theist. But for most atheist, the expression is one of anger. Like yelling out, "Son of a bitch" in the same situation. Who really thinks the hammer was born of bitch?

We got one "atheist" in this thread who admits to calling God down to damm the hammer. Prodigy is that person really an atheist?

not necessarily

depends on whether or not they believe that God exists

and if at this point you are ready to yell "OMG but the fact that they are actually calling God down to damn the hammer means that they DO believe in God"

this is not true if we use the word "believe" in the way it is commonly used instead of the way you prefer to use it.

it is not necessarily true that the act of asking God to come down and damn a hammer means that you believe it to be highly likely that God exists (EDIT: they may think it around 5% likely but it's worth a shot given the upsides and downsides)

again, it doesn't matter if you don't like this use of the word "believe" or think it arbitrary

the point you still have not addressed still holds

either we use it in the way we want to use it and we are correct

or we use it int he way you want us to use it and would then not actually make the claim that we are atheists

Finally. Thank you.

Now, here's the deal. I'm pretty much a Deist. I absolutely believe that there is a Creator, or God. If anyone asks, "do you believe in God", I don't hesitate -- it's an immediate, "yes".

However, I do not know that God exists. In other words, I have never seen enough evidence, or heard a logical, rational argument, that convinces me of God's existence.

I absolutely believe God exists, but I do not absolutely know it.

Which lever do I pull? Atheist, or Theist?



How does this fit into your "test"? What am I?

Roundguy, I would say your verbal position statement contradicts your metaphorical statement on the same issue.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Please elaborate.

Well you make a verbal statement saying you believe in God. In the next breath you pull a lever labeled "One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods"

One of those statements isn't true.

No. Knowledge trumps belief, always.

I believe that God exists, but I'm not willing to bet my life on it.

So, what am I?

Ok were talking about the hypothetical where there are 2 levers, one labeled atheist, the other labeled theist. If you choose the lever that doesn't best describe your belief you die. Your conclusion that you're betting your life on the existence of God is wrong. God's actual existence doesn't matter, what matters is in this hypothetical is wether you are properly labeling yourself or not.

Damn dude. Ok, I'm done. I can't play a game where the referee keeps changing the goddamn rules.

WTF?

Roundguy, I'm not changing the rules. In fact I'm going to a lot of effort to make sure we are on the same page.

*sigh*

I'm going to make this as simple as I can.

I believe God exists, but I am not convinced enough of this fact to risk my life.

In Stu's opinion, what am I? Atheist, or Theist?

A theist, just like me

Of course. Because by all normal definitions, as a Deist, I'm a Theist.

I changed your quote, just a bit. Do you agree with it?

It doesn't make sense to me. Atheist do not believe God doesn't exist. They disbelieve the existence of God.

Everybody probably has some belief. If its strong enough to influence thier behavior, they can no longer be said to be disbelieving.

Agree?

The intention of not being taken literally speaks to their intentions and attitudes ("Hurr durr I'm an atheist hurr durr"). The content of their speech is analagous to their actions (calling on a God to damn the hammer), which apparently are all that matter.

Now do you see how silly you're being?

If the atheist had said "SON OF A BITCH!" when he struck his thumb with the hammer do you honestly think the atheists believes the hammer is born of a bitch?....and is male?" I don't think so.

When someone says, "God Damit!" I generally means they are angry and not really trying to call God down to damm the hammer.

Yeah, if someone insisted that I believe in God because I say "God dammit" when I hit my thumb, that person would just be playing semantics and exhausting the whole forum wasting time.

And yet pulling the lever = not atheist, somehow.

So it's not automatically Actions >>>>> Intentions, then? Only when it suits you?

Stu, agree?

There is no such thing as "some disbelief". "Disbelief" is the refusal to believe or accept something as true. If you are in a true state of "disbelief" it precludes being in a state of "believing". So you basically twisted my quote into something that is nonsensical.

Now my contention is that if someone says they "disbelieve" they must be lieing if they act like they behave as if they believe.

A persons words and a persons actions should be consistent.

Bull****. It's no different than "some belief".

You've lost this one. Sorry.