Practically nothing written in the Bible is literal. There is one important point that you guys miss in the whole discussion:
Even if we knew Jesus in person (lets say we have a time machine and go back in time and meet "Jesus") we would still see Jesus through our own eyes (interpretation, understanding)
=> "Jesus" is our interpretation of "Jesus" as long as we don't become "Jesus". This is actually (also my interpretation) what Jesus teaches. This is all the story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac is about. => Absolute obedience (or absolute faith) means give up on your own interpretation. If Abraham uses his own interpretation he will not sacrifice Isaac. If Jesus uses his own interpretation he will not go to the desert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W.
I wonder sometimes. But I also don't know the relevance one way or another. Is the grace of God any less if Moses wasn't an "actual" person?
Yes. But the gap of between the Old and New Testaments is quite clear in terms of both authorship and expected levels of historicity.
Are you going to present an affirmative argument for your position at some point?
Is the grace of God any less if Jesus wasn't an "actual" person?
"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
For God there is no difference between flesh (If there were a difference God would not be just), whoever becomes obedient, can do whatever Jesus did, no matter where he/she is born, no matter his/her color and no matter his/her race and no matter his/her religion.
"12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and
they will do even greater things than these, because
I am going to the Father (
In flesh I will die). " / "5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7
If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (
You don't need me anymore)
(If any of you is interested to discuss this with me, you should consider starting a new thread because it is another topic)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
If Moses, Abraham and Isaac weren't real people, then I don't see any reason to believe anything in the Old Testament.
If Moses, Abraham and Isaac weren't real people, then maybe God's grace isn't real either.
Since in Acts 24 the Apostle Paul said that he believed the OT in its entirety, I would expect the historicity of the OT to be 100% accurate.
Lord willing, and the creek don't rise.
1) The deeds are important not the names. One should believe in Moses, Jesus... because of their deeds not because of their names.
2) Perfect communication means understanding the intention of the words and not what the words literally mean. Even if the Apostle Paul said that he believed the OT in its entirety we still don't know his intention.
But when having faith in God is what all the Bible is about than everything what is quoted from Adam to Jesus is to be viewed as a lecture to learn faith => Who doubts in me and who doesn't give up on me! A good example is: "14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.”
And his disciples heard him say it." If Jesus did mean this literally and I were the fig tree than I would tell him, I have never done anything but what father told me, how about you? Tell me your history and what you did think about that girl when you were young.