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Why do you care about truth? Why do you care about truth?

03-14-2010 , 12:49 AM
In another thread ILP commented something about truth and it got me thinking again why do any of us care about truth?

Does holding truth have any real value? If life ends when you die and the actual truth would make your life more difficult, why would you want it?

Shouldn't we be more concerned with what makes our lives as enjoyable as possible? Is truth guaranteed to accomplish that?
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 12:52 AM
You can't handle the truth.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 01:09 AM
While sometimes knowing the truth can make you less happy, in general it is +ev.

/thread
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 01:11 AM
THE ARCHITECT'S VERSION(S) OF THE MATRIX

The Architect created two versions of the Matrix, both of which failed for the same reason. His task was to create a virtual reality environment that would keep humans happy and would cause them to want to stay in it. He approached this problem from a purely superficial stance, attempting to create an outward environment that he felt would please everyone. His first attempt was his best approximation of heaven. Everyone rejected it, which led him to believe that humans define their existence through suffering (which they pretty much do). So he went to the other extreme and created a hellish version. This was also completely rejected.

THE ORACLE'S VERSION OF THE MATRIX

The Oracle, who was programmed to study the human psyche, knew that changing the environment was not the solution to the problem. Although her version with a more realistic environment did not follow an extreme interpretation of either heaven or hell, the superficial change was not the reason that her version attained nearly 99% success as opposed to the Architect's dismal 0% success.


It didn't even have to do with humans being able to accept or reject her version.


I set that last sentence apart, because it is extremely key in attempting to understand the anomaly and why it exists. Many people assume that the Oracle's version allowed for choice while the Architect's did not. That could not be further from the truth. In the Architect's version, people had the ability to either accept or reject it. The fact that they were ABLE to reject it is evidenced by the fact that they DID reject it. It couldn't be simpler. So the bottom line is that BOTH the Architect's version AND the Oracle's version allowed people to either accept or reject them. So what was so special about the Oracle's version? Why did nearly 99% accept hers and not the Architect's?

THE UNIQUENESS OF THE ORACLE'S VERSION OF THE MATRIX

Step back for a minute and imagine that you are back in the time between the Architect’s failed version and the Oracle’s version. She has yet to create her own masterpiece, and is currently studying the Architect’s version to try to discern the reasons for its failure. She is in her lab, and along with her assistants she is examining one guy in particular--Mr. John Smith. John is an average guy who at first seems to enjoy the Architect's "heaven" version of the Matrix. He goes through his days walking around on the clouds, getting good at playing his harp, and any other "heavenly" activities that are available. But after about 100 days of this, something starts to happen. John starts to get this instinctive feeling that there's something wrong with heaven. He can't quite put his finger on it, but he detects that this world in which he resides is not, in fact, heaven. After a while, this feeling becomes an all-consuming thought that gnaws at him insistently until he reaches the point where he is basically convinced that he is not actually in heaven at all. He doesn't know what it ACTUALLY is, but he does know what it is NOT. Soon he is seeking to get out, to escape, at any cost. Before you know it, he is almost going insane with the need to leave this place he used to enjoy.

The Oracle and her assistants wipe John's memory and start over. As expected, he is back to being happy and content, and all appears to be well. That is, until about 100 days or so have passed. Then the vicious cycle of rebellion begins all over again just as it did before. The Oracle's assistants suggest to her that perhaps the Architect wasn't good enough at describing heaven. Perhaps what he envisioned as heaven is not the way that humans envisioned it. And while this argument sounds convincing at face value, the Oracle's intuitive nature tells her that something else must be the problem.

After thinking about it for a while, she decides to try something different. She decides to enter the simulation and speak directly to John. Her assistants are flabbergasted, but at the same time they are curious to see what she will do. The Oracle approaches John and strikes up a conversation with him. It has been about 20 days since they last wiped his memory, so he is still feeling positive about being in heaven. She begins to ask him questions about what he thinks about heaven and if he likes it or not. He replies that he likes it very much. She continues to ask questions, probing deeper and deeper with each one. Soon she is tapping into previously hidden subconscious doubts that John had been having about heaven. And the more he talks to her, the more these doubts begin to come to the surface. Eventually, the Oracle feels that the time is right; she informs John that the heaven in which he lives is in fact a virtual reality program.

John responds with shock, disbelief and denial. But the more that the Oracle tells him about what's really going on in the Real, the more the truth of what she's saying strikes a chord within John's heart and mind. The icing on the cake is when the Oracle opens up his eyes to see beyond the simulation to its underlying code. As he looks around, he sees everything and everyone comprised of strange, alien green code--including his own body. He begins to freak out, but the Oracle comforts him and tells him that there is a solution. As he stares blankly at her, she pulls out two pills and holds them out in front of him. She tells him that if he chooses the blue pill, that he will go to sleep and the next morning he will believe whatever he wants to believe. But if he chooses the red pill, then he will remember everything she has just told him and will have to live with that knowledge for the rest of his life--knowing that he is trapped in a virtual reality world from which he cannot escape.

After a bit of thought, John chooses the blue pill. He tells the Oracle that if he cannot leave, then he would rather forget about the truth of his situation. Better to believe a lie and be happy than to believe the truth and suffer, he tells her. After giving him the blue pill and watching him gradually fall asleep a minute or two later, she leaves the Matrix and returns to the laboratory. Her assistants are ecstatic about what just happened, but the Oracle tells them that they must wait to see the results before celebrating. 50 days go by, then 75, then 100. John is showing no signs of displeasure whatsoever. 150 days pass. Then 200. Time passes, and John has been in the Matrix for nearly 500 days--with no indications of rebellion. He is the happiest of people, and goes about the Matrix just living out his life.

The secret had been discovered. However, the solution was not to include the ability to reject the Matrix. Humans already had that ability in the Architect's Matrix and exercised it en masse. No, the secret was in causing John Smith to believe that his destiny was in his own hands by PRESENTING him with the option to choose. Instead of sitting back and waiting to see whether or not he MIGHT reject the Matrix, he is intercepted before the thought of rebelling even enters his mind. The truth of the matter is presented to him, at which point he is PRESENTED WITH an option: accept or reject. So the difference between the Architect’s version and the Oracle’s version is best described by the Merovingian when he says, “Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without.”

Choosing to accept the Matrix--even though all memories of the choice being made are wiped--still leaves a residual contentment that carries John Smith through, even in times when he begins to doubt that he's really in heaven. It's like an override that smooths over the doubts that he has and brings him back to a contented state of mind. The Oracle finds this to be true even if they cause this option to be given to John Smith on a subconscious level. The curious thing about those who subconsciously choose to reject the Matrix do not remember doing so, although from that point on they have “splinter in the mind” which haunts them until they either die or are unplugged from the Matrix.

REJECTING THE MATRIX

The Matrix has NEVER been able to handle rejections; not the Architect's version, and not the Oracle's version either. If even one person rejects it, there is a problem. With the Architect's version, the problem was so widespread that it was like complete anarchy. But even the Oracle's version has its problems. Even though the percentage of people who rejected it was still less than 2%, this problem still had to be dealt with. The reason for this is that rejections cause the Matrix to crash. If everyone rejects it all at once (like in the Architect's Matrix), it will crash very quickly. If less than 2% reject it (like in the Oracle's Matrix), it will still crash but will take a lot longer to do so. In essence, the Oracle did not completely solve the problem; instead she merely prolonged the inevitable crash by a considerable length of time.

The Matrix is designed in such a way that it can only work smoothly when 100% of the people plugged into it accept it. It is a neural network, and as such is affected by any rejections that occur. It is more or less like a yes/no A rejection is referred to as an anomaly. This rejection/anomaly is not something that can be deleted or countered. It stays in the system indefinitely, and over time as more rejections/anomalies occur, their net effect is increased. And due to its effect on the entire system, the Architect refers to this effect as the systemic anomaly. If allowed to continue, then eventually the number of rejections/anomalies will build up so much that the resulting systemic anomaly will cause the system to crash. This crash will kill every human that is hardwired to the Matrix.

SOLVING THE PROBLEM

Rebooting the Matrix does not solve the problem, either. If it did, the Architect would simply reboot the system periodically to clear out the rejections/anomalies. Apparently with a neural network this sort of wipe is not possible. The Oracle surmised that the only way to undo these rejections/anomalies was to somehow attach all of them to a single person, and then bring that person to the Source to unload the rejections/anomalies into it. This would result in the rejections being deleted. This unloading, or dissemination, of the code this person would be carrying would be accomplished by presenting him with two options. By choosing the "correct" option, this person would in effect be accepting the Matrix, which would act as a sort of reversal of all the rejections that he is carrying, and thereby enabling them to be deleted at the Source.

There were complications with this, and the Architect was insistent that there be safety measures in place to ensure that this person would in fact accomplish this feat. The part that made him nervous was that this person would need to be empowered by the Source in order to accomplish the task. Giving humans--even if it was just one human--access to that much power was not considered a good idea by the Architect. The Oracle came up with a plan that would ensure as much as possible that this human would indeed perform the task which they required of him.

She created an entire scenario whereby this human would be set up as a sort of savior of mankind. He would be looked upon by others as a sort of demigod and would be trained in how to use his powers. This required people to do the training, which meant that some of the 1% would need to be allowed to discover the truth of the Matrix and possibly even become unplugged as well. These people would serve as a loyal following to their savior. A prophecy was created, which set expectations so that they would be looking for their savior.

Finally, the Oracle put all of these aspects into a single subroutine within the larger programming of the Matrix. This subroutine would serve as a series of steps that the savior would go through and be led eventually to the Source to unload the rejections/anomalies that have been attached to him since his birth, unknown to him.

The Architect and the Oracle, true to their natures, had different words to describe the same thing. The Oracle called the savior the One. The Architect called him the integral anomaly, indicative of the fact that all of the system’s rejections/anomalies were placed on him. He also refers to the One as the eventuality of the anomaly, which means that as more and more rejections occur, there will eventually have to be an integral anomaly (the One) to take care of the problem. The Oracle called the subroutine she created the Path of the One. The Architect called it the prime program. The Oracle called it prophesying when she told the released humans about the coming of the One. The Architect called it a control measure.

Eventually it was decided that a certain number of the 1% of the population would be allowed to unplug from the Matrix and build their own city called Zion. This was done in such a way that the humans were led to believe that they had actually escaped the Matrix against the Machines’ wishes. Everything was set up in order to add as much believability to the deception as possible. Sentient programs were even added to the Matrix solely to make it appear that the Machines are trying to fight Zion. After all, a savior is unnecessary if you have nothing to be saved FROM.

This last part is important because it reveals that Zion is actually a control measure for the One, not the other way around. Zion exists only to find and train the One, and to be the means by which the One becomes attached to humanity and begins to take on the role of mankind’s savior since that is how the Zionists would perceive him. Once the One has performed the task he has been designed to serve, Zion is destroyed. Because it has served its purpose, it must not be allowed to exist any longer than it has to.

The prime program, or Path of the One, is reinserted when the One reaches the Source and disseminates the code he carries. The Path of the One starts when the One chooses 23 individuals from the Matrix to rebuild Zion and ends years later when the next One arrives at the Source to perpetuate the cycles. And this is how the cycles of the Matrix go on and on. For a short period of time immediately after the dissemination of the code the One carries, the Matrix attains 100% acceptance. It is at this point that the Architect reloads the Matrix. And for a time it stays at 100% acceptance, until the first time someone rejects it...

Last edited by helium tedium; 03-14-2010 at 01:38 AM.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
In another thread ILP commented something about truth and it got me thinking again why do any of us care about truth?

Does holding truth have any real value? If life ends when you die and the actual truth would make your life more difficult, why would you want it?

Shouldn't we be more concerned with what makes our lives as enjoyable as possible? Is truth guaranteed to accomplish that?
The truth shall set you free.........mentally from all fears.......
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
Shouldn't we be more concerned with what makes our lives as enjoyable as possible?
Yeah so let the gayz get the marryz and let terminally ill people call it quits when they want to.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pletho
The truth shall set you free.........mentally from all fears.......
This point was driven home repeatedly by Flip Wilson's Gearaldine character. It is as good a reason as any. The trick is determining what is truth.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 03:01 AM
There is no truth. Only belief. All "truth" inevitably leads to contradiction. So just get comfortable. Or don't.

Adhering to any truth is pure pig-headedness. Oink.

Spoiler:
The above statement was not truthful
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
In another thread ILP commented something about truth and it got me thinking again why do any of us care about truth?

Does holding truth have any real value? If life ends when you die and the actual truth would make your life more difficult, why would you want it?

Shouldn't we be more concerned with what makes our lives as enjoyable as possible? Is truth guaranteed to accomplish that?
I think truth is "living truth".

It inherently holds the seed to happiness but the seed has to be cherished and developed.

In his book "Spurgeon on the Holy Spirit" Spurgeon says The Spirit goes thru 4 stages: wind, fire, oil, and water.

In the third stage (oil) Spurgeon says: "when the Spirit has thus quickened the soul and convinced it of sin, then we can use the simile of oil to understand the Spirit's work. In the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit is frequently compared to oil. "Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over" (Ps. 23:5). Oh, friends though the beginning of the Spirit is by fire, it does not end there. We may be first of all convinced and brought to Christ by misery, but when we get to Christ, there is no misery in Him; our sorrows result from not getting close enough to him."

The Spirit comforts our spirit, annoints our head and causes us to rejoice.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 03:32 AM
Truth is just a chemical reaction in the brain that quickly gets bored of itself.

We don't seek truth - we already have it. We seek NEW and exciting truths.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
In another thread ILP commented something about truth and it got me thinking again why do any of us care about truth?

Does holding truth have any real value? If life ends when you die and the actual truth would make your life more difficult, why would you want it?

Shouldn't we be more concerned with what makes our lives as enjoyable as possible? Is truth guaranteed to accomplish that?
interesting question ... in general truth does not guarantee happiness, especially in the short term. Typically, finding the truth involves realizing that something you previously believed was true is actually false. This usually leads to short term unhappiness, and for some, extended periods of unhappiness.

personally, I am the type that prefers to know the truth rather than live in ignorance. Perhaps that is why i was never satisfied being a Christian (even though I was quite happy), because those 20 years, I never was sure that Christianity was the truth, and once I started digging and trying to confirm that it was, the opposite happened. once I decided to stop "being" a Christian, I definitely ran into some short term unhappiness, but in the end, I am definitely, without a doubt, much happier now than i was when I was Christian (for many reasons).

Perhaps this is what differentiates many atheists from many theists (not all, but many, imo). Many theists, although they might have a small voice that says what they believe might be false, their life as a Christian is much better than it would be if they suddenly became an atheist. The lack of community support, the abandoning of family and friends (and perhaps husband/wife/children), the absence of that "higher power" that you could put your hope in, is just too much to lose for some people (like BigErf). For many theist to atheist converts, perhaps its pride or the refusal to live in "ignorance" that leads them to stop believing regardless of the negative effects it might have on their lives. They just cant force themselves to believe despite all their wishes, and God refuses to help them out, despite their pleading.

Its pretty sad when I think back. I *wanted* to stay a Christian, but years of asking God to show Himself to me resulted in nothing but emptiness. I don't regret it though, its just sad thinking back at how miserable I was back then.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
While sometimes knowing the truth can make you less happy, in general it is +ev.

/thread
hmm, i like it

cosign
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 04:05 AM
I won't pretend to offer some of universal affirmation, but it's been my experience that delusion can be pretty harmful, so it's generally good to look for the truth of situations.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 04:08 AM
Truth is worthless and often counter-productive. I seek it because I'm a sick individual.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn Prophet
I won't pretend to offer some of universal affirmation, but it's been my experience that delusion can be pretty harmful, so it's generally good to look for the truth of situations.
"Delusion" is just bias gone wrong (well, that or mental illness). Bias has been observed to be universal in every cognitive process in which we've been able to test for it. And I speculate that bias is universal because, nine times out of ten, it works.

Attempting to strip away bias is a dangerous gamble because it's attempting to remove a deep-seated mechanism that is a very strong part of how we've learned to adapt to our environment. We don't necessarily even have the tools to go without it. Thankfully, most people are really ****ty at dropping their biases and preconceptions and cherished myths. When they do succeed (or are more or less forced to acknowledge that they're wrong), they seem to react pretty consistently with distress.

So I don't think looking for truth is a good idea, in general. I'd bet more people dash themselves against the rocks than make the truth work for them (and even more just waste time).
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 04:52 AM
Equivocation going on itt imo.
There is 'truth' between people and truth in matters of reality.

Truth between people is good for a person insofar as it allows one to, without undue effort, maintain relationships. Undue efforts is vague, but by it I mean that consistantly lying about things will make it hard match up with what is actually going on in your life and with you.
This truth is mostly a personal truth, one of singular perception. Too much of a mismatch between what is actually going on and what you have going on in your head is still going to hurt.

Truth regarding reality is important in that consistent hallucinations (or other mismatches between what is actually going on and what is going on in your head) will be dangerous for ones health. I think such a process would, when combined with a constantly active brain, that glitches and often (example: sensory deprivation) makes **** up, generates an acute NEED for truth and thus a drive in one to search for it.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
In another thread ILP commented something about truth and it got me thinking again why do any of us care about truth?

Does holding truth have any real value? If life ends when you die and the actual truth would make your life more difficult, why would you want it?

Shouldn't we be more concerned with what makes our lives as enjoyable as possible? Is truth guaranteed to accomplish that?
If you value truth... it can make you live your life in certain instances more "properly".

In other words...if I value truth in my relationship...I may be less likely to cheat on me spouse. Because I believe that truth is very important...I may make better decisions.

I think I know where you are aiming this... let's say I'm a girl and I had a drunken fling one night with a bloke and feel fairly certain that the impregnation was due to his little swimmers and not me man.... Do I need to tell my mate that it's possible that our child could belong to the silly mick that I had a toss-about with one night after a few too many pints or should I just carry that to me grave?
At that point... I think you have some soul searching to do. BUT... had you valued truth before you drank 7 Irish Car-Bombs and 5 pints of stout...then did the dead with the li'l mick... perhaps you would have chosen to simply blow him off and not risk a 9 month fertilization/incubation process.

I had me wild days.... I now value truth more because it's usually the "right thing to do".
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helium tedium

We don't seek truth - we already have it. We seek NEW and exciting truths.
Truth being inescapable and present for all is an interesting concept. Any concept of truth that requires seeking is going to have difficulty withstanding examination.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by helium tedium
THE ARCHITECT'S VERSION(S) OF THE MATRIX

The Architect created two versions of the Matrix, both of which failed for the same reason. His task was to create a virtual reality environment that would keep humans happy and would cause them to want to stay in it. He approached this problem from a purely superficial stance, attempting to create an outward environment that he felt would please everyone. His first attempt was his best approximation of heaven. Everyone rejected it, which led him to believe that humans define their existence through suffering (which they pretty much do). So he went to the other extreme and created a hellish version. This was also completely rejected.

THE ORACLE'S VERSION OF THE MATRIX

The Oracle, who was programmed to study the human psyche, knew that changing the environment was not the solution to the problem. Although her version with a more realistic environment did not follow an extreme interpretation of either heaven or hell, the superficial change was not the reason that her version attained nearly 99% success as opposed to the Architect's dismal 0% success.


It didn't even have to do with humans being able to accept or reject her version.


I set that last sentence apart, because it is extremely key in attempting to understand the anomaly and why it exists. Many people assume that the Oracle's version allowed for choice while the Architect's did not. That could not be further from the truth. In the Architect's version, people had the ability to either accept or reject it. The fact that they were ABLE to reject it is evidenced by the fact that they DID reject it. It couldn't be simpler. So the bottom line is that BOTH the Architect's version AND the Oracle's version allowed people to either accept or reject them. So what was so special about the Oracle's version? Why did nearly 99% accept hers and not the Architect's?

THE UNIQUENESS OF THE ORACLE'S VERSION OF THE MATRIX

Step back for a minute and imagine that you are back in the time between the Architect’s failed version and the Oracle’s version. She has yet to create her own masterpiece, and is currently studying the Architect’s version to try to discern the reasons for its failure. She is in her lab, and along with her assistants she is examining one guy in particular--Mr. John Smith. John is an average guy who at first seems to enjoy the Architect's "heaven" version of the Matrix. He goes through his days walking around on the clouds, getting good at playing his harp, and any other "heavenly" activities that are available. But after about 100 days of this, something starts to happen. John starts to get this instinctive feeling that there's something wrong with heaven. He can't quite put his finger on it, but he detects that this world in which he resides is not, in fact, heaven. After a while, this feeling becomes an all-consuming thought that gnaws at him insistently until he reaches the point where he is basically convinced that he is not actually in heaven at all. He doesn't know what it ACTUALLY is, but he does know what it is NOT. Soon he is seeking to get out, to escape, at any cost. Before you know it, he is almost going insane with the need to leave this place he used to enjoy.

The Oracle and her assistants wipe John's memory and start over. As expected, he is back to being happy and content, and all appears to be well. That is, until about 100 days or so have passed. Then the vicious cycle of rebellion begins all over again just as it did before. The Oracle's assistants suggest to her that perhaps the Architect wasn't good enough at describing heaven. Perhaps what he envisioned as heaven is not the way that humans envisioned it. And while this argument sounds convincing at face value, the Oracle's intuitive nature tells her that something else must be the problem.

After thinking about it for a while, she decides to try something different. She decides to enter the simulation and speak directly to John. Her assistants are flabbergasted, but at the same time they are curious to see what she will do. The Oracle approaches John and strikes up a conversation with him. It has been about 20 days since they last wiped his memory, so he is still feeling positive about being in heaven. She begins to ask him questions about what he thinks about heaven and if he likes it or not. He replies that he likes it very much. She continues to ask questions, probing deeper and deeper with each one. Soon she is tapping into previously hidden subconscious doubts that John had been having about heaven. And the more he talks to her, the more these doubts begin to come to the surface. Eventually, the Oracle feels that the time is right; she informs John that the heaven in which he lives is in fact a virtual reality program.

John responds with shock, disbelief and denial. But the more that the Oracle tells him about what's really going on in the Real, the more the truth of what she's saying strikes a chord within John's heart and mind. The icing on the cake is when the Oracle opens up his eyes to see beyond the simulation to its underlying code. As he looks around, he sees everything and everyone comprised of strange, alien green code--including his own body. He begins to freak out, but the Oracle comforts him and tells him that there is a solution. As he stares blankly at her, she pulls out two pills and holds them out in front of him. She tells him that if he chooses the blue pill, that he will go to sleep and the next morning he will believe whatever he wants to believe. But if he chooses the red pill, then he will remember everything she has just told him and will have to live with that knowledge for the rest of his life--knowing that he is trapped in a virtual reality world from which he cannot escape.

After a bit of thought, John chooses the blue pill. He tells the Oracle that if he cannot leave, then he would rather forget about the truth of his situation. Better to believe a lie and be happy than to believe the truth and suffer, he tells her. After giving him the blue pill and watching him gradually fall asleep a minute or two later, she leaves the Matrix and returns to the laboratory. Her assistants are ecstatic about what just happened, but the Oracle tells them that they must wait to see the results before celebrating. 50 days go by, then 75, then 100. John is showing no signs of displeasure whatsoever. 150 days pass. Then 200. Time passes, and John has been in the Matrix for nearly 500 days--with no indications of rebellion. He is the happiest of people, and goes about the Matrix just living out his life.

The secret had been discovered. However, the solution was not to include the ability to reject the Matrix. Humans already had that ability in the Architect's Matrix and exercised it en masse. No, the secret was in causing John Smith to believe that his destiny was in his own hands by PRESENTING him with the option to choose. Instead of sitting back and waiting to see whether or not he MIGHT reject the Matrix, he is intercepted before the thought of rebelling even enters his mind. The truth of the matter is presented to him, at which point he is PRESENTED WITH an option: accept or reject. So the difference between the Architect’s version and the Oracle’s version is best described by the Merovingian when he says, “Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without.”

Choosing to accept the Matrix--even though all memories of the choice being made are wiped--still leaves a residual contentment that carries John Smith through, even in times when he begins to doubt that he's really in heaven. It's like an override that smooths over the doubts that he has and brings him back to a contented state of mind. The Oracle finds this to be true even if they cause this option to be given to John Smith on a subconscious level. The curious thing about those who subconsciously choose to reject the Matrix do not remember doing so, although from that point on they have “splinter in the mind” which haunts them until they either die or are unplugged from the Matrix.

REJECTING THE MATRIX

The Matrix has NEVER been able to handle rejections; not the Architect's version, and not the Oracle's version either. If even one person rejects it, there is a problem. With the Architect's version, the problem was so widespread that it was like complete anarchy. But even the Oracle's version has its problems. Even though the percentage of people who rejected it was still less than 2%, this problem still had to be dealt with. The reason for this is that rejections cause the Matrix to crash. If everyone rejects it all at once (like in the Architect's Matrix), it will crash very quickly. If less than 2% reject it (like in the Oracle's Matrix), it will still crash but will take a lot longer to do so. In essence, the Oracle did not completely solve the problem; instead she merely prolonged the inevitable crash by a considerable length of time.

The Matrix is designed in such a way that it can only work smoothly when 100% of the people plugged into it accept it. It is a neural network, and as such is affected by any rejections that occur. It is more or less like a yes/no A rejection is referred to as an anomaly. This rejection/anomaly is not something that can be deleted or countered. It stays in the system indefinitely, and over time as more rejections/anomalies occur, their net effect is increased. And due to its effect on the entire system, the Architect refers to this effect as the systemic anomaly. If allowed to continue, then eventually the number of rejections/anomalies will build up so much that the resulting systemic anomaly will cause the system to crash. This crash will kill every human that is hardwired to the Matrix.

SOLVING THE PROBLEM

Rebooting the Matrix does not solve the problem, either. If it did, the Architect would simply reboot the system periodically to clear out the rejections/anomalies. Apparently with a neural network this sort of wipe is not possible. The Oracle surmised that the only way to undo these rejections/anomalies was to somehow attach all of them to a single person, and then bring that person to the Source to unload the rejections/anomalies into it. This would result in the rejections being deleted. This unloading, or dissemination, of the code this person would be carrying would be accomplished by presenting him with two options. By choosing the "correct" option, this person would in effect be accepting the Matrix, which would act as a sort of reversal of all the rejections that he is carrying, and thereby enabling them to be deleted at the Source.

There were complications with this, and the Architect was insistent that there be safety measures in place to ensure that this person would in fact accomplish this feat. The part that made him nervous was that this person would need to be empowered by the Source in order to accomplish the task. Giving humans--even if it was just one human--access to that much power was not considered a good idea by the Architect. The Oracle came up with a plan that would ensure as much as possible that this human would indeed perform the task which they required of him.

She created an entire scenario whereby this human would be set up as a sort of savior of mankind. He would be looked upon by others as a sort of demigod and would be trained in how to use his powers. This required people to do the training, which meant that some of the 1% would need to be allowed to discover the truth of the Matrix and possibly even become unplugged as well. These people would serve as a loyal following to their savior. A prophecy was created, which set expectations so that they would be looking for their savior.

Finally, the Oracle put all of these aspects into a single subroutine within the larger programming of the Matrix. This subroutine would serve as a series of steps that the savior would go through and be led eventually to the Source to unload the rejections/anomalies that have been attached to him since his birth, unknown to him.

The Architect and the Oracle, true to their natures, had different words to describe the same thing. The Oracle called the savior the One. The Architect called him the integral anomaly, indicative of the fact that all of the system’s rejections/anomalies were placed on him. He also refers to the One as the eventuality of the anomaly, which means that as more and more rejections occur, there will eventually have to be an integral anomaly (the One) to take care of the problem. The Oracle called the subroutine she created the Path of the One. The Architect called it the prime program. The Oracle called it prophesying when she told the released humans about the coming of the One. The Architect called it a control measure.

Eventually it was decided that a certain number of the 1% of the population would be allowed to unplug from the Matrix and build their own city called Zion. This was done in such a way that the humans were led to believe that they had actually escaped the Matrix against the Machines’ wishes. Everything was set up in order to add as much believability to the deception as possible. Sentient programs were even added to the Matrix solely to make it appear that the Machines are trying to fight Zion. After all, a savior is unnecessary if you have nothing to be saved FROM.

This last part is important because it reveals that Zion is actually a control measure for the One, not the other way around. Zion exists only to find and train the One, and to be the means by which the One becomes attached to humanity and begins to take on the role of mankind’s savior since that is how the Zionists would perceive him. Once the One has performed the task he has been designed to serve, Zion is destroyed. Because it has served its purpose, it must not be allowed to exist any longer than it has to.

The prime program, or Path of the One, is reinserted when the One reaches the Source and disseminates the code he carries. The Path of the One starts when the One chooses 23 individuals from the Matrix to rebuild Zion and ends years later when the next One arrives at the Source to perpetuate the cycles. And this is how the cycles of the Matrix go on and on. For a short period of time immediately after the dissemination of the code the One carries, the Matrix attains 100% acceptance. It is at this point that the Architect reloads the Matrix. And for a time it stays at 100% acceptance, until the first time someone rejects it...


That was awesome.

However.

Whu?


H
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 09:33 AM
I don't believe truth is anything more than an imposed value - like a geometrical point, the number two or the letter "x".

All the above can be used to describe experience, but none of them are experience. I figure "truth" is exactly the same.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 09:41 AM
Im shocked. You arent a realist?
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
While sometimes knowing the truth can make you less happy, in general it is +ev.

/thread
I don't know that this is true (pun intended). I think that there can be a lot of scenarios where truth is going to be more damaging to a person. As they say "ignorance is bliss"
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nittyit
Yeah so let the gayz get the marryz and let terminally ill people call it quits when they want to.
Have I ever talked about imposing my beliefs or morals on anyone? If someone comes to me for advise I might share it, but I am wildly against trying to govern other people morally.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknightx
interesting question ... in general truth does not guarantee happiness, especially in the short term. Typically, finding the truth involves realizing that something you previously believed was true is actually false. This usually leads to short term unhappiness, and for some, extended periods of unhappiness.

personally, I am the type that prefers to know the truth rather than live in ignorance. Perhaps that is why i was never satisfied being a Christian (even though I was quite happy), because those 20 years, I never was sure that Christianity was the truth, and once I started digging and trying to confirm that it was, the opposite happened. once I decided to stop "being" a Christian, I definitely ran into some short term unhappiness, but in the end, I am definitely, without a doubt, much happier now than i was when I was Christian (for many reasons).

Perhaps this is what differentiates many atheists from many theists (not all, but many, imo). Many theists, although they might have a small voice that says what they believe might be false, their life as a Christian is much better than it would be if they suddenly became an atheist. The lack of community support, the abandoning of family and friends (and perhaps husband/wife/children), the absence of that "higher power" that you could put your hope in, is just too much to lose for some people (like BigErf). For many theist to atheist converts, perhaps its pride or the refusal to live in "ignorance" that leads them to stop believing regardless of the negative effects it might have on their lives. They just cant force themselves to believe despite all their wishes, and God refuses to help them out, despite their pleading.

Its pretty sad when I think back. I *wanted* to stay a Christian, but years of asking God to show Himself to me resulted in nothing but emptiness. I don't regret it though, its just sad thinking back at how miserable I was back then.
I understand what you are saying, but it was the opposite for me. I know that you don't believe me, but I came to christianity because I was seeking truth and didn't find it in my previous worldview.

I do however agree that there are many people that fit this description, but I would add that there are many atheists that fit this as well.

If I really was just out to comfort myself I would hit a point where I was comfortable and then stop searching. I continue to press and test my beliefs because as Madnak says below "I am sick". I cannot help myself and am not concerned with how "damaging" the truth might be, I am drawn to want to know.

I guess that is kinda the question. Why do some seek truth even with the knowledge that it might not help them? What causes this compulsion? Sometimes I really do feel like it an addiction.
Why do you care about truth? Quote
03-14-2010 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madnak
Truth is worthless and often counter-productive. I seek it because I'm a sick individual.
This is how I feel. We all know that the mind is capable of creating its own "true reality" if you let it. No matter which worldview you have, you have to admit that because you have to know that only one group is right which means the other groups are merely creating their own reality.
Why do you care about truth? Quote

      
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