Why didn't God carve "Jesus Lives" on the face of the moon? - Religion, God, and Theology

For example, a "god of all humankind" could have carved "Jesus Lives" on the face of the moon, where all humankind could witness the miracle, and observe it for all time without relying on hearsay--at the very least, he could have extended the darkness and earthquake and mass rising of dead people, reported to have occurred at his crucifixion by Matthew (27:45-54), over the whole earth, where it would be recorded by every historian of every civilization, so that all humanity could share in the prodigy--he could have attended the moment with a voice or vision seen and heard by every human being, affirming his divinity and sending the message of Life to all. Why, a "god of the universe" could have even rearranged the stars to spell "Jesus Lives"--the sort of feat that can never be replicated by technology and which would demonstrate a truly universal power over all of nature. Without miracles of such magnitude, a god fails to show the extent of his power, fails to advertise to all his subjects, and fails to prove himself thereby. He fails to exhibit his means and message in a manner proportionate to what we are supposed to believe about him.

If he had, do you think I would be skeptical?

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03-17-2010 , 06:38 PM

MelchyBeau

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Because Muhommad had to sunder the moon in half

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03-17-2010 , 06:41 PM

VP$IP

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Reading it now...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_of_the_moon

You sir, are well read.

The Amazing Kreskin

Last edited by VP$IP; 03-17-2010 at 06:47 PM.

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03-17-2010 , 06:46 PM

Jerok

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Originally Posted by VP$IP

Richard Carrier raises an interesting evaluation on the Biblical evidence.

For example, a "god of all humankind" could have carved "Jesus Lives" on the face of the moon, where all humankind could witness the miracle, and observe it for all time without relying on hearsay--at the very least, he could have extended the darkness and earthquake and mass rising of dead people, reported to have occurred at his crucifixion by Matthew (27:45-54), over the whole earth, where it would be recorded by every historian of every civilization, so that all humanity could share in the prodigy--he could have attended the moment with a voice or vision seen and heard by every human being, affirming his divinity and sending the message of Life to all. Why, a "god of the universe" could have even rearranged the stars to spell "Jesus Lives"--the sort of feat that can never be replicated by technology and which would demonstrate a truly universal power over all of nature. Without miracles of such magnitude, a god fails to show the extent of his power, fails to advertise to all his subjects, and fails to prove himself thereby. He fails to exhibit his means and message in a manner proportionate to what we are supposed to believe about him.

If he had, do you think I would be skeptical?

If God proved without doubt that he existed there wouldn't be any faith, no free choice to believe in Him.

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03-17-2010 , 06:49 PM

Hainesy_2KT

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if god arranged the stars to say jesus lives?

dude, wtf sort of a post was that?

Hnzy

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03-17-2010 , 06:49 PM

VP$IP

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Originally Posted by Jerok

If God proved without doubt that he existed there wouldn't be any faith, no free choice to believe in Him.

Yes. That makes sense. The current method of having outlandish tales allows him to easily sort out the true believers from the riff-raff. Very clever.

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03-17-2010 , 06:53 PM

VP$IP

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Originally Posted by Hainesy_2KT

if god arranged the stars to say jesus lives?

dude, wtf sort of a post was that?

Hnzy

Dood!
Try to have a more open mind.

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03-17-2010 , 06:56 PM

Hainesy_2KT

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i'm trying my hardest, i just can't see how anyone could honestly suggest that with a straight face.

or was it meant as a joke?

me no know

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03-17-2010 , 07:01 PM

VP$IP

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That is fair.

I didn't make it up.

I thought it raised an interesting point about religion. In other words,

What if God had only allowed one person to see evidence of the resurrection?

Would it be logical to accept that report?

Similar perhaps to the Golden Plates of Mormanism.

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03-17-2010 , 07:02 PM

#10

Dying Actors

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerok

If God proved without doubt that he existed there wouldn't be any faith...

so you are saying there is doubt on whether God exists or not?

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...no free choice to believe in Him.

this doesn't take away anyones free choice. we could still choose to believe, or not believe. choose to follow god, or not.

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03-17-2010 , 07:06 PM

#11

VP$IP

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Originally Posted by Dying Actors

this doesn't take away anyones free choice. we could still choose to believe, or not believe. choose to follow god, or not.

Good points.

Adam and Eve presumably knew God personally, yet had the free will to make their own decisions.

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03-17-2010 , 07:10 PM

#12

Weatherhead03

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerok

If God proved without doubt that he existed there wouldn't be any faith, no free choice to believe in Him.

Bogus. You would still have to believe. Some people would think it was aliens playing tricks on us, others would believe it was a fake etc.

Some people will never believe, some will believe with evidence, some will believe with no evidence, it will always be that way.

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03-17-2010 , 07:16 PM

#13

MelchyBeau

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When christians talk about free will concerning god, they are not claiming you have a choice to believe or not believe in him. For quite a few christians, they think it is completely absurd to not think god exists.

The choice is whether to 'accept' or 'reject' God, Christ, Mohammed, etc...

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03-17-2010 , 07:16 PM

#14

VP$IP

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Anyone think that God gave us the Southern Cross as proof?

Fall on your knees.

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03-17-2010 , 07:25 PM

#15

Stu Pidasso

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God made the sun and the moon, as we observe them, the same relative size in the sky. Nobody knows what the odds are of this happening on any given planet by pure happenstance.......I imagine it's extremely rare. Probably a lot more rare than finding geologic features that resembles a human face.

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03-17-2010 , 07:29 PM

#16

Jibninjas

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What is God's goal? Don't you have to know his goal in order to critique his methods for accomplishing that goal?

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03-17-2010 , 07:33 PM

#17

Hainesy_2KT

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Originally Posted by VP$IP

Direct spiritual experience is openly available to all who sincerely seek it.

Believing is not a question of accepting someone else's written version of events, that is what a secularist thinks believing is.

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03-17-2010 , 07:40 PM

#18

Dying Actors

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Originally Posted by Jibninjas

What is God's goal? Don't you have to know his goal in order to critique his methods for accomplishing that goal?

2 Peter 3-9

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

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03-17-2010 , 08:01 PM

#19

Justin A

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Originally Posted by Stu Pidasso

Omg! What are the chances they'd be the exact same relative size?!

Oh wait...

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03-17-2010 , 08:09 PM

#20

VP$IP

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Originally Posted by Jibninjas

What is God's goal? Don't you have to know his goal in order to critique his methods for accomplishing that goal?

Help me figure out the goal of the Bible's floating axe head miracle.

Then one of them said, "Won't you please come with your servants?"
"I will," Elisha replied. And he went with them.
They went to the Jordan and began to cut down trees. As one of them was cutting down a tree, the iron axhead fell into the water. "Oh, my lord," he cried out, "it was borrowed!"
The man of God asked, "Where did it fall?" When he showed him the place, Elisha cut a stick and threw it there, and made the iron float.

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03-17-2010 , 08:15 PM

#21

Stu Pidasso

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin A

Omg! What are the chances they'd be the exact same relative size?!

Oh wait...

You mean like this?

Wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be in the billions to 1 range. I just don't think there are many planets that are suitable places for intelligent life to arise which also have a huge moon.

Last edited by Stu Pidasso; 03-17-2010 at 08:21 PM.

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03-17-2010 , 08:16 PM

#22

UGA_Dawg_2003

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibninjas

What is God's goal? Don't you have to know his goal in order to critique his methods for accomplishing that goal?

Inherent assumption is the statement above is that God exists!!!

Edit: That seems to be the inherent assumption in the entire thread.

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03-17-2010 , 08:58 PM

#23

Justin A

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Originally Posted by Stu Pidasso

You mean like this?

Wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be in the billions to 1 range. I just don't think there are many planets that are suitable places for intelligent life to arise which also have a huge moon.

So you admit that they're only the same relative size sometimes right?

How about averages? On average the sun is about 389 times farther away than the moon. Meanwhile, the sun is about 400.5 times larger than the moon.

Billions to 1 still?

Edit: FYI, the ratio of our distance from the earth to the sun and the earth to the moon ranges from about 360 to 420. The sizes obviously stay at about 400.5.

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03-17-2010 , 09:07 PM

#24

Cherry MrMisty

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A simple internet search for "total solar eclipse" turns up a lot more pictures that look like Stu's than Justin's. (although I must admit that my initial reaction was that the moon in Stu's was waaay too pitch black)

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03-17-2010 , 09:09 PM

#25

Justin A

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Originally Posted by Cherry MrMisty

Weird, because a simple internet search for "annular solar eclipse" turns up way more pictures that look like mine. Weird that if you search for the definition of Stu's picture more of his pictures turn up!

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