I think that this is a question that many of us have asked ourselves, if not all of us. I think that even most of the atheists here have even asked this question before.

This can be one of the toughest questions to answer as Christians. Mainstream Christian theology has answers that leave most of us totally unsatisfied both intellectually and emotionally.

Once again I am going to refer to a Greg Boyd sermon. Actually this is a two part sermon that he does on this topic. Within the sermons he answers these questions and gives a theology that I feel makes the most sense both biblically and intellectually.

Now atheists, if your answer is "because God does not exist, ldo" I ask that you refrain from posting that here. I would like this to be a discussion about what Boyd says and what others feel on the matter. Also, if you do not feel that watching the sermons is worth you time, then do not make comments on how someone is making excuses or derail the topic. If you do not want to watch the sermon but have honest questions then I will do my best to relay what Boyd says. This is not a debate, but a discussion.

Here are the sermons,

Egg, Scorpions, and Prayer part 1
Egg, Scorpions, and Prayer part 2

stopped watching after he started inserting his own choice of words that weren't there

What?

"because God does not exist, ldo" is not my standard line in this spot. I prefer a:

Has God ever answered any of your prayers Jib? When I was a young child(4-9) I prayed every single night. I remember that I could not sleep without praying. Every night these prayers included the Lords Prayer(standard ldo) and then prayers for my family. I was also taught to pray for peace in Northern Ireland and did so sincerely. I sat alone for my first week of secondary school because the kid who was meant to sit next to me in alphabetical order was blown up by the real IRA in the Omagh bomb.

These prayers did nothing but reassure me before I went to asleep. I actually remember being afraid that negative events may be my fault for not praying. I hope they have had better results for those in here but heavily doubt it has anything to do with a loving God if they do.

I think that is a very honest and understandable way to feel. I suggest that you watch the sermons.

I wouldn't normally watch religious sermons in my past time but on your advice I'll have a look.

I appreciate that. If anything I feel that it should be interesting for you from a theological standpoint. His sermons are not like most that you have probably heard.

Please let me know what you think. I would love to discuss it with you.

Awesome Jibninjas!

You and NotReady both have turned me on to two of the best speakers I have seen. You with Boyd and NotReady with William Lane Craig.

Just a couple of minutes in and I have to quote Boyd in two thing he says that stick out in my mind. and Now I know this doesn't address why God didn't answer my prayer but I thinks it's important to establish that God does in fact welcome the prayers because it is so essential to the communication we have with Him. Prayer is a must! I always found it interesting that everytime I gave an example of a prayer of mine I was accused of not caring about others enough to pray for them, i.e. so it was more important for you to pray for your daughter to get a good night sleep then to ask God to help a starving child in Africa?

The assumption seemed to be that this was my only prayer and I chose what I did over what would appear to be something of more significant value. Prayer is continuous and should be a constant activity throughout the day, every day, so yes, it is ok to ask for things that will help out your life as long as they are genuine needs or desires.

But the point here is that we really can influence God to help in our lives and this is what make Christianity SO SPECIAL! God wants a person to person relationship with us. He Created the world that way - so that on a daily basis we could be in constant communication with Him.

Ok, moving along..

Erf,

I am glad that you enjoy him. Boyd has really changed my life. Craig is also really great. NR and I have kinda an ongoing Boyd vs Craig conversation. Not that we talk about who is better, but that there is one topic that we disagree and I always refer to Boyd in my defense and he refers to Craig in his defense. It has be a lot of fun.

I agree that prayer should be an ongoing thing. I talk to God throughout the entire day every day. I think that it is very important and Boyd lays out how and why it is so important.

I watch his sermons every week and I am always amazed at what he says. He really presents a side to the scripture that people like you and I might not see because we have not studied it as extensively as he has and do not have the knowledge of Greek and Hebrew that he does. He really is a great man, imo.

Simply amazing sight that comes from Boyds words!

Only so many ppl can win the lottery.

lol

This guy's good.

I think people forget God is also a long range planner. What if your current prayer will delay or unhinge his plan? Or you asked for something not in accordance with his will?

The communion with God himself, his presence, is more important than any object of our prayers.

My guess would be that you are not good Christians. But what do I know...it's not like I know god intimately or make the pretense that I do.

Actually I think that's the outside world's illusion. A lot of Christians have times when they simply misunderstand the will of God.

If Christians would truly surrender themselves and commit themselves into God's hands he can use them.

They just try to do too much under their own power and that's not God's power.


The devil tries to keep people cut off from God with this trick and its the same one he uses to make Christians ineffective.

All I see and hear in this thread is a lot of people making claims of knowing what god wants, wishes, desires, rewards and how he/she/it acts. At the same time the whole mythos of god is purposefully constructed so it can't be verified, falsified or measured.

As somebody might notice it does not add up. Either you don't get get the first or you don't get the second.

You can't say "We don't know what god wants" in sentence one and then followup with "they misunderstand god" in sentence two - its nonsensical.

When have once said that I know what God wants? So far we have only ruled out what we know God does not want, ie. people going to hell. We know this because the bible says it.

I call BS on this. Nothing that is talked about in Boyd's sermon is ad hoc. And these beliefs were around much longer then anyone being able or bothering to try do studies on prayer. So everything you are saying is either a misunderstanding or you are intentionally just trying to look at things cynically.

God is disclosed in the person of Jesus Christ. You want to know who God is? Find out as much as you can about who Jesus Christ is. Jesus is the way we understand the Creator of the universe. Christ is Gods "mind".

Proverbs chapter 8 actually indicates this:

Proverbs 8

In Praise of Wisdom

With great understanding,

Wisdom is calling out as she stands at the crossroads

and on every hill.

3She stands by the city gate

where everyone enters the city,

and she shouts:

4"I am calling out

to each one of you!

5Good sense and sound judgment

can be yours.

6Listen, because what I say

is worthwhile and right.

7I always speak the truth

and refuse to tell a lie.

8Every word I speak is honest,

not one is misleading

or deceptive.

9"If you have understanding,

you will see that my words

are just what you need.

10Let instruction and knowledge

mean more to you

than silver

or the finest gold.

11Wisdom is worth much more

than precious jewels

or anything else you desire."



Wisdom Speaks

12I am Wisdom --Common Sense is my closest friend;

I possess knowledge

and sound judgment.

13If you respect the LORD,

you will hate evil.

I hate pride and conceit

and deceitful lies.

14I am strong,

and I offer

sensible advice

and sound judgment.

15By my power kings govern,

and rulers make laws

that are fair.

16Every honest leader rules

with help from me.

17I love everyone who loves me,

and I will be found by all

who honestly search.

18I can make you rich and famous,

important and successful.

19What you receive from me

is more valuable

than even the finest gold

or the purest silver.

20I always do what is right,

21and I give great riches

to everyone who loves me.

22From the beginning,

I was with the LORD. [c] I was there before he began

23to create the earth.

At the very first,

the LORD gave life to [d] me. 24When I was born,

there were no oceans

or springs of water.

25My birth was before

mountains were formed

or hills were put in place.

26It happened long before God

had made the earth

or any of its fields

or even the dust.

27I was there when the LORD

put the heavens in place

and stretched the sky

over the surface of the sea.

28I was with him when he placed

the clouds in the sky

and created the springs

that fill the ocean.

29I was there when he set

boundaries for the sea

to make it obey him,

and when he laid foundations

to support the earth.

30I was right beside the LORD,

helping him plan and build. [e] I made him happy each day,

and I was happy at his side.

31I was pleased with his world

and pleased with its people.

32Pay attention, my children!

Follow my advice,

and you will be happy.

33Listen carefully

to my instructions,

and you will be wise.

34Come to my home each day

and listen to me.

You will find happiness.

35By finding me, you find life,

and the LORD will be pleased

with you.

36But if you don't find me,

you hurt only yourself,

and if you hate me,

you are in love with death.


Wisdom is actually Jesus in disguise:
http://www.realchrist.info/a2-2.html

There is one approach to prayer that I consider valid. It involves two components:

1 - Prayer isn't about convincing God to want what I want, prayer is about convincing myself to want what God wants.

2 - What actually occurs is what God wants (on some level - either God is amoral or this is the best possible world, etc).

I have to disagree on both accounts. Mostly on #2. Did you watch the video? Boyd directly deals with #2 which is what many people believe and profess. I feel that can be very damaging.

Take a look at my Brother Lawrence link m. I think you'll like it. Its deep.

God doesn't "answer" your prayers because people have become disillusioned as to the purpose of prayer. God is not a genie, and prayers aren't for "wishes". The purpose is communication with God, and part of this should be making your intentions known to Him.

Also, if God answered your "prayers", so many amazing things would happen that it would prove His existence. This would take away the choice of believing in Him, and there would be no more faith. Just acknowledgement. He wants us to have a choice to believe in him.

That is why.

(assuming you're not a gimmick) So why bother praying in the first place?