This is a repost (slightly updated) from a thread I started a year and half ago...would have bumped it but it was likely lost in the 2+2 software upgrade.

A popular debate here in RGT often arises as far as who gets into Heaven. We see a wide spectrum of opinion, from atheist/agnostics who claim that a God who condemns anyone is immoral, to fundamentalists who have a very narrow view of salvation (i.e. the tribesman in Africa who's never heard of the Bible is out of luck). David in particular has fun needling the latter group in this forum by providing examples of good people who, according to the teachings of many biblical fundamentalists, must be in Hell (a great example was the herioc Jewish VA Tech professor who died ensuring his students could escape the horrific 2007 school shootings. Or why the wife-beating drunk, nominally Christian gets heaven while the Muslim "doctor without borders" is condemned). In this post, I will present my understanding of salvation and "Who gets Heaven" based my best interpretation of Catholic teaching, in large part influenced by the writings of Saint Maria Faustina, especially Divine Mercy in My Soul. It is quite different from the two extremes presented above.

My view of salvation is has two important cornerstones:

1) God loves each human soul immensely and greatly desires the salvation of every last one of us.

2) At the moment of death, God offers each soul "Final Grace." I'll define Final Grace as the opportunity for a soul to recognize its sins, to understand the full magesty of the Triune God, and to trust in God by abandoning itself completely to His Mercy. This offer is independent of a soul's past sinfulness or what religion he or she happened to practice. In other words, at the moment of death, every soul has an opportunity for Heaven if it simply desires to coorperate with the Final Grace the Lord graciously offers.

A question some may ask: Why does what we do on Earth matter, if Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot, Pope John Paul II, and Mother Teresa of Calcutta all get the same offer? Quite simply, our actions on Earth and the Faith we have determine the probability that our soul will cooperate with Final Grace. A person who lives a life of faith and charity towards his fellow man will have little difficulty cooperating with Final Grace. However, grave evils a person commits in their life (evils from which he hasn't repented) will steep a soul in its own misery, and lead a soul to doubt the Lord's offer of mercy. This
misery makes cooperating with the Lord's offer of mercy extremely difficult. From the examples I mentioned, John Paul's faith and life lead one to believe he is a near lock to cooperate with Final Grace, while the atrocities and grave sins Hitler committed would make him a serious underdog to want to cooperate with Final Grace. I can't say with absolute certainty that JP II is in Heaven and Hitler is in Hell, but based on their lives, JP II was a prohibitive favorite to cooperate with Final Grace while Hitler was a decided underdog to.

If what I've postulated is true, it leads to some interesting scenerios. For example, a Buddhist who leads a great life, has concern for his fellow man, and searches earnestly for spiritual truth may be a significant favorite to obtain Heaven over a nominal Christian who considers himself "saved" yet lives his life in gross neglect of Gospel teachings. The former's life has set himself up to cooperate with Final Grace while the latter will have to overcome significant misery to fully trust in God's mercy. In certain circumstances, I may even deem an atheist a favorite for Heaven over the Christian (assuming the atheist thoroughly searched his heart and mind for God without finding him yet managed to live his life in accord with the Gospels). With this understanding, I cheerfully conclude that the above mentioned VA Tech professor, with a final act of heroic charity, almost certainly cooperated with Final Grace and is in Heaven.

Further derived from this understanding, is that God condemns no one to Hell. Hell is the result of a soul's refusal to cooperate with Final Grace. The loss of each soul to Hell grieves God greatly since He desires salvation for all of us. However, He always respects our free will, and if a soul wishes to condemn itself to Hell, He obliges with its request. This should answer the question of how a good and just God can allow Hell.

This understanding of Heaven reenforces my faith in the truth of Catholicism. The Church essentially provides a fool proof road map to Heaven. If the teachings of the Catholic Church are faithfully followed, the Catholic will almost certainly cooperate with Final Grace and obtain Heaven. These teachings include frequent Mass attendence, reception of the Holy Eucharist, daily prayer, and confessing of sins. These actions limit the misery experienced by a soul at the moment of death and make it receptive to God's offer of Final Grace. Everyone gets this offer, but IMO practicing Catholics are in the best shape to say "Yes."

Does Catholicism believe that people of other religions can get to heaven? I vaguely remember the stance on this. Can you find this in any of the Catholic literature?

Found it: Indifferentism

I believe that nobody gets into any kind of heaven. I am sure I am right. /thread?

Lol.

First time reading this forum and it's got nutters like this posting stuff about getting into heaven. Classic.

heh.... good luck

Allow me to introduce you to Big Erf and Splendour. Commence life tilt after debating with them.

So where does Christ dying for your sins fit into all of this? His sacrifice seems irrelevant if you have purgatory to work things out with teh Gawd.

omg, just read OP. 2moro i will be a sober man., 2moro i will maybe reply to this thread. Short answer = no. That is just a taster do pls hang on.

It does not. In fact, when the bible said that Christ died to pay for our sins, it was actually lying. You see the catholic church trumps God and they say that you have to pay for your sins yourself.

Jib, please show me why Bigdaddy is wrong.

Do you have enough scripture? I doubt it. And you certainly don't have tradition to fall back on...

Not tonight. But I will have a field day with this tomorrow.

I wait with bated breath...

Alright, I do not have a ton of time today but I want to at least start to address this. I do hope that the OP is right and that every who lives a good life will be able accept the grace of God and get into heaven. But in order to believe that there are many passages in the bible that need some major explaining. There is a consistent theme in the NT that revolves around Jesus being the key to salvation. And that one must believe in him in order to be saved. I will list out just a few of the passages here and then wait for the OP to explain why they do not mean what they appear to mean.

“Acts 4:11-12 He is " 'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.[a]'[b] 12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

“Eph. 2:8 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—”

“Titus3:55he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,”

“Mark 16:15-16 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

“Romans 10:8-12 8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[d] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[f]”

“John 3:5 5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.”

“John 3:14-15 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]”

“John 3:16-18 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g]”

“John 10: 7-97Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] He will come in and go out, and find pasture.”

“Acts 16:29-31 29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."”

“John 14:6-7 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."”

“John 6:40 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."”

“1 John 2:22-23 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.”

“Matthew 10:31-32 32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.”

Anyone who reads the bible imo.


I mean, let's face it, both Christianity and Islam is just Judaism without the funny hats and the jokes.

I find this a very appealing theological view both from a Universalistic and Spiritual standpoint. I subscribe to it.

Do we differ much in interpretation of that bolded sentence? If Jesus says something like: 'There is no other way to the kingdom, but through me', do you envision Jesus as a physical entrance to heaven, or does a literal interpretation stop there?

What does Jesus stand for? Amongst other things love and help and insight and redemption and grace. I therefor interpret that sentence to not as much 'believe in Jesus as a literal person of flesh and blood', but as 'the examples of Love and Gracious acts he showed and bestowed upon us'. It is not as much about believing in Mother Therassa, as it is believing in living a life supporting others. The physical Jesus is not around anymore, it is what he stood for and brought to us from God that remains. (That and ofcourse rinsing of sins). I interpret the message of God and Jesus to be of beneficial acts and wisdom, not of exact names and quarrels about physical appearences. I think the message is, is to spread this message of Love and live inspired by Jesus, eventhough you might not even know him (yet).

A message of Love can have many more bearers and many ears.

If you don't interpret in any way how I do, try reading the bible quotes you just posted with my view in mind. To me they read very clear, and without any problem to anyone that believes in Love.

'the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him'

OP's theory is very nice. The main problem with it is that it is simply shamelessly made up, bearing no relation to what the Scriptures actually say. In this respect it would certainly fit neatly into the tenets of Catholicism.

Feel free to jump into the Catholic vs. Protestant thread then. I'm pretty sure we're ahead at last tally.

Link?

Here

This chapter in Hebrews explains exactly what God's plan was for OT believers and NT believers.

Hebrews 10

Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All


1 The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. 2 If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared.

3 But instead, those sacrifices actually reminded them of their sins year after year. 4 For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 That is why, when Christ[a] came into the world, he said to God,

[B]“You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings.
But you have given me a body to offer.
6 You were not pleased with burnt offerings
or other offerings for sin.
7 Then I said, ‘Look, I have come to do your will, O God—
as is written about me in the Scriptures.’”

8 First, Christ said, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings or burnt offerings or other offerings for sin, nor were you pleased with them” (though they are required by the law of Moses). 9 Then he said, “Look, I have come to do your will.” He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect. 10 For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time.
11 Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins. 12 But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand. 13 There he waits until his enemies are humbled and made a footstool under his feet. 14 For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy.

15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies that this is so. For he says,

16 “This is the new covenant I will make
with my people on that day,[c] says the Lord:
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[d]

17 Then he says,

“I will never again remember
their sins and lawless deeds.”[e]

18 And when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices.
A Call to Persevere


19 And so, dear brothers and sisters,[f] we can boldly enter heaven’s Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus. 20 By his death,[g] Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. 21 And since we have a great High Priest who rules over God’s house, 22 let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works. 25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us. 30 For we know the one who said,

“I will take revenge.
I will pay them back.”[h]

He also said,

“The Lord will judge his own people.”[i]

31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 Think back on those early days when you first learned about Christ.[j] Remember how you remained faithful even though it meant terrible suffering. 33 Sometimes you were exposed to public ridicule and were beaten, and sometimes you helped others who were suffering the same things. 34 You suffered along with those who were thrown into jail, and when all you owned was taken from you, you accepted it with joy. You knew there were better things waiting for you that will last forever.

35 So do not throw away this confident trust in the Lord. Remember the great reward it brings you! 36 Patient endurance is what you need now, so that you will continue to do God’s will. Then you will receive all that he has promised.

37 “For in just a little while,
the Coming One will come and not delay.
38 And my righteous ones will live by faith.[k]
But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.”[l]

39 But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.