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who created god? who created god?

06-13-2010 , 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Newff
LOL you talk about ignorance, then you say this^
Last I heard, +90% of the US population believes in a fictional god and something like +50% do not accept evolution. So what's your point? Maybe you need to look up what ignorance means before making a fool of yourself?
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06-13-2010 , 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jibninjas
do you really think that the universe bringing itself into existence out of nothing (the ultimate bootstrapping maneuver) is equally as plausible as a being creating it out of nothing?
How can people be so foolish as to believe the universe was created out of nothing?
Clearly the true answer is that the universe was created out of nothing, by God.
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06-13-2010 , 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jibninjas
do you really think that the universe bringing itself into existence out of nothing (the ultimate bootstrapping maneuver) is equally as plausible as a being creating it out of nothing?
God bootstrapped himself obviously.
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06-13-2010 , 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jibninjas
do you really think that the universe bringing itself into existence out of nothing (the ultimate bootstrapping maneuver) is Yes equally as plausible as a being creating it out of nothing?
I dont think those are the only two options.

If they were then the idea of an eternal being existing outside of time and the idea of something coming from nothing are equally plausible or implausible, i guess. Really i wouldn't want to and couldn't rank them at all because i just dont have any idea whats going on in this universe. It would be like ranking girls in burkas with a blindfold on.

Last edited by batair; 06-14-2010 at 12:06 AM.
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06-14-2010 , 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jibninjas
do you really think that the universe bringing itself into existence out of nothing (the ultimate bootstrapping maneuver) is equally as plausible as a being creating it out of nothing?
I know this won't mean anything to you, but the earliest stage of the universe was rather simple. The term many scientists use for it is a singularity. It is many times more plausible to think that once upon a time, a simple thing came into existence, than to think an incredibly complex thing like an all powerful, all knowing, god did.

As Dawkins like to say: Complexity arrives late in the universe. It is a much further stretch to start out with complexity. And I really hope you're not going to use the argument that god is simple. Please... Think of all he can supposedly do and does. No way is the god you believe in simple.
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06-20-2010 , 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dmolition
I'm sorry but you are confusing the pokemons with the "Theory of evolution",
that is not how evolution works, no cat will ever play Xbox with you because he doesnt need it to survive, no food or improvement comes from that.
If the reason that make us different from the cat is to have food and to survive, so, to have more food, why didn't our ancestor have some sharpen nail as a cat, or why can't we run faster and jump higher? And so do the cat, why didn't they know how to create some simple tools or why they was afraid of fire while human being not?

And why human being's eyes can see this world with several coulors, while the cat just see black and white.
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06-21-2010 , 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DonkeyFocker
we always seem to wanna know if god exists but if he exist who created him?
It should be noted that there really only one merit to the question "Who/what created God?" and that is as an answer to the question "Who/what created the Universe?"

They are both bogus questions, and the intention of the question "Who created God?" should be to show just that.

That doesn't mean the assumed properties God and the assumed properties of the universe are knowledge on equal footing. Prayers don't move mountains, but huge amount of explosives can.
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06-21-2010 , 07:09 PM
The problem with your "point" is that it's not as apparent that God is in need of being created as it is that the universe is, as each is defined.
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06-21-2010 , 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by freelancerpoker
If the reason that make us different from the cat is to have food and to survive, so, to have more food, why didn't our ancestor have some sharpen nail as a cat, or why can't we run faster and jump higher? And so do the cat, why didn't they know how to create some simple tools or why they was afraid of fire while human being not?

And why human being's eyes can see this world with several coulors, while the cat just see black and white.
sometimes it's better to not say a thing then to prove that you are a moron...
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06-21-2010 , 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tame_deuces
It should be noted that there really only one merit to the question "Who/what created God?" and that is as an answer to the question "Who/what created the Universe?"

They are both bogus questions, and the intention of the question "Who created God?" should be to show just that.

That doesn't mean the assumed properties God and the assumed properties of the universe are knowledge on equal footing. Prayers don't move mountains, but huge amount of explosives can.
not as bogus as you think but hey, to each is own...
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06-21-2010 , 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Lestat
I know this won't mean anything to you, but the earliest stage of the universe was rather simple. The term many scientists use for it is a singularity. It is many times more plausible to think that once upon a time, a simple thing came into existence, than to think an incredibly complex thing like an all powerful, all knowing, god did.

As Dawkins like to say: Complexity arrives late in the universe. It is a much further stretch to start out with complexity. And I really hope you're not going to use the argument that god is simple. Please... Think of all he can supposedly do and does. No way is the god you believe in simple.
How are you defining "simple" and "arrives late" here. Because neither of these things in their general meaning seem to make sense in what you are saying.

And I don't think that it helps you much to say that something really simple came into being and that "exploded" into something incredibly complex for some reason.

Why would something so simple turn into something so complex? In other words, what was added to the system to make what was once so simple into something so complex?
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06-21-2010 , 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin A
God bootstrapped himself obviously.
once again, God did not at one time "not exist". If the universe existed eternally in the state that we see it now, we would not be having this conversation. Why is this so hard to grasp?
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06-21-2010 , 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jibninjas
once again, God did not at one time "not exist" If the universe existed eternally in the state that we see it now, we would not be having this conversation. Why is this so hard to grasp?
For me its hard to grasp because i don't know that the universe didn't exists in a different state eternally or popped out of nothing. And idk if God, if there is one, needed a creator or not.
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06-21-2010 , 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by batair
For me its hard to grasp because i don't know that the universe didn't exists in a different state eternally or popped out of nothing. And idk if God, if there is one, needed a creator or not.
well, you know that the universe did not always exist in the state that it is in right now, correct?

And if "god" needed a creator, then we would be calling that creator God.
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06-21-2010 , 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jibninjas
well, you know that the universe did not always exist in the state that it is in right now, correct?
Sure. But that doesn't help me know it wasn't in some other state eternally. And it doesn't help me know it didn't come form noting. Or create itself. Or some other possibility im not able to think of because of my primitive ape brain.
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And if "god" needed a creator, then we would be calling that creator God.
I have a wide definition of the word God so yes i would call its creator God but you might not.

Im not sure an infinite regresses of creator Gods is imposable. People tell me its not but idk.
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06-22-2010 , 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Jibninjas
Why would something so simple turn into something so complex? In other words, what was added to the system to make what was once so simple into something so complex?
While I'm not sure, I'm assuming you accept evolution Jib. Hopefully, I'm right about that. You're not a Creationist, are you?

If so, then you agree we don't start out with complexity. A single light sensitive cell comes before a complicated eye. The complicated eye evolves from the simple light sensitive cell. Vertebrae before non-vertebrae, etc.

The universe is no different. Simple red hot planets before ones with more complicated atmospheres and biospheres evolved. Simple atoms like hydrogen and helium evolved before the heavier elements. Stars before galaxies, etc., etc. As time goes on, complexity increases. This isn't to say that complexity MUST arise, but that complexity must have simple beginnings. Nothing starts out being complex.

I'm not a scientist or a teacher, so let me know if you don't understand this and maybe I can find a few links.
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