Yes, there appears to be a widespread opinion about what he thinks. But it is pretty clear those that know His Word what is right or wrong. Since you can't come up with a topic to discuss regarding this, this conversation is rather useless.

this is just bs. christian is a defined group of people that follow christ and his teachings. If christ says that killing is wrong and that people that follow his teachings should not kill, then if someone goes around killing, they are not following his teachings and thus by definition not a christian.

You don't even have to go to killing people. "No true christian would support gay marriage". "No true christian believes in evolution" etc...

Indeed.

No, it is not. That is precisely the point.

It is not that I cannot, it is that it is irrelevant.

I guess that it depends on what you are reacting to. in the past these sort of threads are in response to theists claiming the people were obviously not a christian based on their behavior.

there are core beliefs that christians must have in order to be christians. just like pretty much every label.

Yes it is, if you can come up with a certain topic that Christians fight over, i can probably show you what is right.

And those who are taking the other side will claim that they have the correct interpretation. This is what you are missing. Still a stalemate.

In this case of Christianity, it is generally that Christ died so that your sins can be forgiven.

And this conversation is basically a stalemate since you aren't showing any signs of understanding His Word, and you can't come up with an issue to be debated.

No, the conversation is not a stalemate. That your position on 'who is a real Christian' is a stalemate with opposing views on 'who is a real Christian' is my position. Whether or not I understand the Bible is irrelevant. What is relevant is that when you interpret something differently than the way somebody else interprets it without some way to mediate, and the only response either of you can make is 'nuh uh' you are at a stalemate. This is what is happening here. This is why this is an argument you cannot win, and why the argument itself is ridiculous in the first place.

Exactly because we are not talking about anything. The Bible is how you mediate Christianity issues and if someone is doing something against the Will of The Bible, than that person is not representing Christ correctly. But determining who is right or wrong is not difficult to figure out. The Words are there. Only people fooled are the people who don't understand His Word because they are being led by those who twist His Word around. If you can come up with a topic i think i can show you how easy it is to interpret who is right or wrong.

We will know the true Christians when we get to heaven. Until then we can only guess - and it's really unnecessary judging. We should strive to love others and by our example others will grow in love too, that is the spirit of Christianity.

We are talking about something. We are talking about what one person's ideas about what Christ would favor are vs. somebody else's.

Unfortunately, there are as many different ideas about what the Bible means as there are Christians. This is the problem.

And those who have different ideas than you say the same thing. Unfortunately, you cannot both be right when your positions are different. Your sentence illustrates the problem perfectly.

And now you are back to square one of the stalemate.

Again, the topic itself is irrelevant. What is relevant is that different people have different ideas about what the Bible means in various situations. You do not get to claim that these people are not Christians simply because you disagree with their assessment, which is why the argument fails.

Don't hold your breath.

Sigh, you should really put those smarts to some good use.

Lets take an easy example. "Justified" killings. Can someone really argue that that is what Christ taught? See how easy it is to tell who is right or wrong? Of course there are some more difficult issues to interpret but the answer is still clear. Only one's being misled are those who don't understand His Word.

I do. I just get tired of Christians using this argument as if there is actually some consensus on everything, but it is such a widespread fallacy that I try to address it when I see it. The irony is, if this argument works, none of them are Christians.

Yes, and when other people's interpretations differ from yours you claim they are not real Christians. Of course, they turn right around and claim the same about you. I understand what you mean, you just are not correct. You can keep repeating it, but the fact remains that you are in a stalemate with the other Christian when you make this argument, which is why you ought to avoid it altogether.

So you are saying "justified" killings are okay in Christianity?

The ones that are right, know they are right. The ones that are wrong, know they are wrong. And it doesn't take much for anyone that is actually interested in what is being debated among Christians to figure out who is right and who is wrong. Of course there are people out there that blindly believe everything they are told if a priest tells them it, so their own agenda gets backed by followers. But the same thing goes for science.

The name "Christian" derives from being a follower of Christ. Studying His life, death, resurrection and teachings, and following Him, is what makes one a Christian.

The problem with, say, Mormons, is that they say Jesus is "a god", but not one with God the Father. Jesus says in John 8, "Unless you believe that I AM (title for God the Father), you will die in your sins." Jesus was putting His deity as a central part to believing in the true God.

Jehovah's Witnesses also deny that Jesus = God.

Catholics, if they hold to their own doctrine (many do not), believe many anti-Scriptural views, the most important probably being that they believe the way to bridge the gap in the relationship with man and God is through man's own works--baptism as a baby, confirmation, doing good deeds, tithing, church attendance, etc. The Bible clearly teaches a salvation that is by faith without works. Jesus fought the Pharisees who had a similar view as Catholics.

Catholics also teach that the Pope speaks "ex cathedra" and his words are on par with Scripture, as well as traditions of the Catholic Church--this means they can make new rules as they see fit and deceive the people into thinking it's from God. But Jesus Himself said He did not come to add or take away from the Law, but to fulfill it. He quoted Scripture when tempted, for every answer to the temptations. Catholicism has become a political power from their corruption.

Catholics teach that priests mediate between God and man, but the Bible says "There is ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". Therefore we are to pray to God through Christ, not speak to a priest as if he's some special person.

The Bible says "Call no one on earth, father", referring to a reverential, spiritual name. This is what priests' title is, "Father Joseph", or w/e.

One of the most important teachings Catholics have that separates them from Christ's teachings is in forbidding marriage. The Bible says in later days there will be deceivers who teach bad doctrine, one of which is "forbidding to marry". In light of context, it is not a prediction of the Catholic Church but it does demonstrate that men with urgings are supposed to marry. Another passage says "It is better to marry than to burn with passion".

I could go on and on--basically if someone is a certain denomination, that means nothing, because you never know what they really believe. I've met Catholics who love God and don't know what the Church teaches. I've met Baptists (supposed to be really good theologically) who are certainly not followers of Christ. It doesn't boil down to a name or denomination, it boils down to the heart, whether a person believes the Bible's teachings concerning the Christ, believing the gospel--that Christ died for our sins and was buried, raised, and witnessed, and ascended to the Father.

If you are an atheist or unbeliever and want to know if someone is a Christian, without knowing the Bible's teaching yourself, it's going to be hard to sift through the rubbish. I mean, most genuine Christians don't even know well enough to tell if certain people are professing the truth or not. It's not always easy, and of course we never know the heart. But if someone says they are a Christian and then believe against the teachings of the Bible, they may or may not be one, but where they go astray, they are not repping the biblical Christian faith.

This is why when I read these forums and people give their religious experiences and why they disbelieve, although I'm a Christian, I agree with their sentiments--given their experience with "religion", I would feel the same way. They swing the pendulum and renounce all religion, when really although they should abandon the caricature of religion they've experienced, they should not go to the opposite end of the spectrum; they should seek the truth wherever it is, even if it's still in the realm of "religion". True Christianity is much different than what almost any unbeliever pictures, therefore they are not even disbelieving in Christianity so much as the caricature they've judged as such.

No. I am not saying anything about your example because it is irrelevant. There are plenty of people who would say that they are okay.

No matter how many times you say this, it is not going to get any better. You keep bringing this up and keep getting slammed on it because those with views different than yours get to make the same argument with the same credibility.

And the problem with you, from their perspective, is that you have it wrong.

No, it is really quite simple. Ask them.

The only credibility that can really be credible, is His Word. I don't see how you cannot understand this. Just like people who think "justified" killings are okay, which by His Word can easily be proved false, there are people that think other things are okay or not okay(or know they are not okay but push them anyways). And those things can also be determined right or wrong by His Word. The Bible doesn't lie, doesn't contradict itself. It is people who lie and contradict The Bible.

Please read my post and not into it. I do not say that I agree with it, only that there are Christians who don't consider Roman Catholics Christian. Surely that is not new information to you.

So, if you say that Jesus =/= God, then you are not a christian?

I do understand. You have already said all of this and I have shown you what the problem with this is. If you do not have anything new to add, then you do not have an edge over those who disagree with your assessment of what the Bible means, and your argument remains a failure.

Pletho denies that Jesus is God but he says he's Christian, so people certainly can call themselves Christian and it means a lot of things.

Man I hate definitional arguments.