What is power and glory?

Obviously, this starts with the attributes given to "God". All powerful, worthy of all glory, etc, etc.

But, it's also been used to describe human leaders. I think you can figure those out on your own.

So, what does "power and glory" mean to you?

Being a Moderator on 2+2 .

Interesting, a bit disturbing, but made me laugh out loud.

It works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpbM8djgzwM

C'mon FG, I don't click links in a public forum.

Give me the Cliff Notes.

an attribute that we try to obtain for ourselves and admire in others due to our flawed human nature.

How does one "obtain" power and glory?

"Admire" is not equal to power and glory.

"Flawed human nature" is intriguing. Please expand.

For the first question I read Machavelli The Prince which had some interesting concepts for obtaining power in a secular sense.

By flawed human nature I mean fallen or disordered. If someone seeks power and glory for themselves or their own cause than that can link to the sin of pride.

Pretty sure we're all familiar with Machiavelli -- a wise old guy speaking his mind.

I'm more interested in your idea of "sin".

In reference to pride, it would be propping yourself above God and not being thankful to what you are given. It could be as simple as a person getting angry and acting out when you feel slighted or as extreme as Hitler.

The fall of Lucifer comes to mind as an example in the Bible.

Ezekiel 28:

Thus says the Lord God:

Because your heart is proud
and you have said, “I am a god;
I sit in the seat of the gods,
in the heart of the seas,”
yet you are but a mortal, and no god,
though you compare your mind
with the mind of a god.
3 You are indeed wiser than Daniel;[a]
no secret is hidden from you;
4 by your wisdom and your understanding
you have amassed wealth for yourself,
and have gathered gold and silver
into your treasuries.
5 By your great wisdom in trade
you have increased your wealth,
and your heart has become proud in your wealth.
6 Therefore thus says the Lord God:
Because you compare your mind
with the mind of a god,
7 therefore, I will bring strangers against you,
the most terrible of the nations;
they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom
and defile your splendor.
8 They shall thrust you down to the Pit,
and you shall die a violent death
in the heart of the seas.
9 Will you still say, “I am a god,”
in the presence of those who kill you,
though you are but a mortal, and no god,
in the hands of those who wound you?
10 You shall die the death of the uncircumcised
by the hand of foreigners;
for I have spoken, says the Lord God.

I get "pride". I completely understand that.

I'm talking about sin. You know, switching eggs to my carton because some are bigger -- cutting the line at Wal-Mart in front of an old lady because I'm busy and she has nothing better to do -- or jerking off to a picture of your sister.

You know -- sin.

what about sin do you want me random dude viewpoint on?

Whatever you wish. I'm an old wise guy that has nothing better to do.

nohands,

I’m sure that you are familiar with the Parable of the Prodigal Son. I’m curious how you interpret the father killing the fatted calf for the prodigal son rather than the brother who always follows the rules.

Was the prodigal son not elevating himself above the family, above the father, when he demanded his inheritance then left and spent it on himself? Yet the father celebrates the prodigal son’s return with the fatted calf instead of killing the fatted calf for the brother who always follows the rules.

that classic old NFL highlight song called The Power and the Glory

what does prodigal mean exactly?

that classic old NFL highlight song called The Power and the Glory

To me, it shows that no matter what atrocities we commit we are always welcome in the kingdom of Heaven. If we are sincerely sorry for what we have done then all our sins and past errors are washed away and we become new again and in communion with our Lord (and there will be fatted calf waiting for us).

Christianity isn't a works based religion so following the rules isn't of upmost importance. It's more about having pure intentions and loving our Lord. The older brother had a hardness of heart and thought he was better than the younger brother due to his self-righteousness and this is not rewarded.

This seems to be at odds with the following line:

31: “My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours.”

He said that to the older brother instead of saying that he is withholding rewards from him for the reasons that you give.

Also, can we not assume that any self-righteousness from the older brother would not have been present prior to the prodigal son claiming his share of the estate and leaving? Yet the father did not give the robe, ring, and calf to either son until after the prodigal son rebelled.

Especially if you rape children.

Especially if you rape children.

The lord says otherwise. Which makes you a false prophet. Which means you will suffer for eternity in hell.

The point is that there is fatted calf available now. The prodigal son parable is clearly referencing familiar teachings. It’s a response to Cain and Abel as well as a reiteration of “ask and it will be given to you” and “knock and the door will be opened for you”.

We are supposed to question why the prodigal son is “blessed” more than the older brother. However, Jesus explicitly contradicts the Cain and Abel interpretation that the older brother must be getting his blessings withheld from him as punishment.

The older brother acts in a way that is analogous to someone standing in front of a door and never knocking. Just waiting. The father even tells him that everything I have belongs to you. Even still, the brother doesn’t make a stand and demand his own blessings.

Further, the parable is telling us that if we knock and the door is not opened, then we should leave the house that we are knocking at. The prodigal son received his fair share of the estate when he asked for it, but to get more than that (robe/ring/calf), he had to leave, go into “enemy territory”, and return. Just like how the lost sheep in the previous parable is favored above the flock, the prodigal son is favored above the group because of his act of disloyalty.

Christians want the Kingdom of Heaven, but are they imitating the prodigal son or the older brother? Are they following the teachings of Jesus or are they following the Old Testament?

I would never, in any situation, minimize the scourge on this Earth of what you are discussing.

It happens in every nation, every society, every religion, everywhere.

You seem to be obsessed with it happening in the "church".

Why is it so important to you to make that distinction?

It could be that the older brothers self-righteousness blinded him from the gifts that were already right in front of him. There would be no reason for the father to say that to the older brother if the older brother knew that everything the father has is his. I believe that the robe and other items signify the importance of coming back to the father and to be back in his good graces.

Myself I feel more like to prodigal child because every time I sin mortally I fall out of God's grace and am damned to Hell. Then I have to go to confession again to be forgiven and welcomed back. So for me it's a constant battle against my own natural inclinations and wants to become holy.

Let’s say there is a way to get beyond this cycle, but it requires that you look beyond your identity as a sinner. That means when you fail and the narrative starts running about how much of a sinner you are who is damned to hell, that you are required to stand your ground rather than submit to the narrative.

Would you be willing to meet that requirement if it meant that you can escape the cycle of sin?