Well Named, I thought this was interesting


here is the Catholic Church's view on the first commandment

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them."
-from Augustine


Now here is the first commandment according to the Old Testament

You shall have no other gods before me.

Note how both say you shall have no other gods before me

I said earlier I view Jesus as a Messiah, the term IMO could also be a prophet or messenger.

How do you see that as in any way being compatible with what the bible teaches?

your first quote is not from Augustine, it's from Exodus.

This has become fascinating with you cooler, your acting like some of the Muslims on Ummah. You were extremely critical of Prophet Muhammad and Muslims in general in the Islam threads, yet you, who I'm unsure is either atheist or Christian, are now telling me I'm not Christian, and worse your trying to use scripture to back it up.

As a Catholic I do have a deep respect for Islam as required by Pope Francis, you OTOH need to work on how kind you are to Islam, you say mean things about Muslims but not Christians, this presents a conflict.

The thing is I was baptized and confirmed, so yes I'm Catholic,only the church can excommunicate me, you have no power or say whatsoever in this situation. Not to mention you sound pretty religious in your post here, which is odd considering your posts in the Islam thread. You have mean, false statements about Muhammad, all of which can be addressed and debunked. Yet you come into this thread practically praising Christianity, what is going on here?

Not at all. Orthodox versions of Christianity accept this, but there are many Christian groups that either reject the trinity doctrine and some who reject the full divinity of Jesus, or at least are tolerant of alternative views on the nature of Jesus..

Not really. Some writers, such as the author of John, are there, but others, such as the writer of Mark, not so much.

Nah. The trinity is not found in the Bible, although it is not implausibly consistent with the Bible. Rather it is a doctrine developed by later theologians who used Greek philosophy to make sense of what seemed like inconsistent claims in the Bible.

More broadly, I don't get why the non-Christians here are so concerned to police the borders of Christianity or Catholicism. If thekid345 wants to claim that identity while maintaining certain kinds of Islamic language and views, so what? Why would we care? More to the point, on what grounds are we going to claim that someone either is or is not a real Christian?

I mean, sure, I guess a lot of people here think he is trolling and so they are calling him out on that, but that is different from claiming that real Catholics/Christians can't have his putative views.

oops minor typo, I was looking at this then for some reason wrote in Augustine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholi...st_commandment


Augustine interpreted this commandment as "Love God and then do what you will".

kid: I didn't say more because I'm not really sure where you are trying to go. I feel sort of vaguely like you are trying to lead the discussion somewhere by asking questions but in this case you aren't actually asking a question and the point is not at all clear to me.

My guess is Kid seeks to represent Jesus in a form that both Islam and Christianity will accept.

Amirite?

I was trying to compare the 1st commandment as outlined in the OT, to the first commandment as outlined in the NT.


I would say my religion of Catholicism is based on my personal belief system, as opposed to trying to appease followers of Islam and Catholicism. I just happen to respect Islam while identifying as a Catholic.FWIW, I was at a table when a card dealer in Vegas claimed she was Half Jewish, Half Muslim. Not trying to be sarcastic here btw, so this person may have both beliefs.

Its more about i dont believe he is a Christian and his putative views are why. Not policing who can be one.


Though im not sure you can call Muhammad a Prophet and be a Christin. If you call him a Prophet and believed Muhammad was a Prophet you would be a Muslim as far as i can tell.


But if you could, ok. I dont think he is that person but ok.

"If you think that to know Allah depends on your ridding yourself of yourself, then you are guilty of attributing partners to Him -- the only unforgivable sin -- because you are claiming that there is another existence besides Him, the All-Existent: that there is a you and a He."-Ibn 'Arabī (Sufi mystic)

Hence, a Sufi might say, “I and the Father are one.” Of course a lot of Christians will accuse him of blasphemy, just as the Jews accused Jesus of the same, but I think that highlights the point: it’s not how we view God or who we think Jesus was; it’s how we view ourselves and who we think we are.

I haven't formally left Catholicism, so I'm still technically a Catholic . And in order to become Muslim,one must make sort of a declaration(a Muslim saying) in which I have not.

The Code of Canon Law imposes latae sententiae excommunication on an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic.

So if I understand what you said correctly is that you haven't actually gone through the process of formally leaving the church, but that is something that you are considering or you have left the church essentially, but not gone through the formal process of doing so (I'm not familiar with the process of leaving the catholic church) That would make sense to me based on your views.

Where exactly does it say this? I believe in one God as asked for in the first commandment, (OT and NT)

Technically speaking, for years, Early Christians did not have the trinity. From modern human sense, Even with this law as you say AFAIK only the Church can excommunicate,and I have not been excommunicated. AFAIK I'm still Catholic and again one most claim a statement in order to become Muslim, in which I have not.

I understand where your coming from here but human law is always prone to error, IMO only God can judge.

One thing is for sure, itt I have learned a few people can be quite religious and one thing I do appreciate about this thread is how no negative words have been spoken about Jesus. Unlike with Muhammad, some people had mean things to say about a man who means so much to many people around the world.

There is just something about Jesus, noyone wants to say negative things about him, for that I commend this thread

I have not gone through the process of becoming a Muslim. At this point I still consider myself Catholic. For me, I will no longer be a Catholic if say I want to become a Jew(converting to Judaism is a difficult process) or Muslim(one must make a certain statement to become Muslim)

This stuff about the Trinity not being known to early Christians and was somehow manufactured within the later church is bull ****. the ancient Egyptians were aware of the Trinity, but of course brought this to light in their own manner.

Becoming aware of the Trinity or other matters of knowledge is a function of the developmental abilities of Man, and therefore may not be well known within a culture but in no way does human development premise "made up" by the church and therefore to be dismissed.

You're talking out of your ass.

1+1+1=! 1

And

Do you think the creator of the universe wiped his own butt? Jesus was a man not the creator.

Just throwing these out here because they will come up some time soon.

Carlos, your views on the Trinity, nor mine, are grounded in fact. The tone of your dialogue and especially last sentence shows your frustration and inability to think critically in the most non bias way, I'm guilty of this as well but trying to improve.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

You know things incorrectly.

You have a basic confusion in that you aren't addressing that being Catholic is a definition, regardless of how you identify yourself. If you were baptized in the Catholic Church and have not filed Defectio ab Ecclesia catholica actu formali (Defection from the Catholic Church by a Formal Act), you are technically Catholic. However, no one cares about this. What the people in this forum care about is whether or not you are a Catholic in good standing, which you clearly are not. Regardless of how you want to identify, you have been excommunicated via latae sententiae by definition, being a heretic on the matter of the trinity. As you are not a Catholic in good standing, no one cares about your opinions about the Catholic Church. That is why you are seeing backlash. People accusing you of not being Catholic are really accusing you of not being a Catholic in good standing. That's what they care about and they are correct, not you.

Kid what I'm trying to say is that I don't think not being excommunicated makes you a christian or a catholic if you reject the most important tenants of the religions doctrine. The incarnation of Jesus is the single most important belief in christianity. What you're doing is like someone saying "I'm a muslim I just don't believe that muhammed was a prophet or that he spoke to god, but I'm a muslim" I don't think that someone can claim a religion if they reject the teachings of that religion.

Can people stop saying things like this; it just gives OP more ammo. It doesn't matter what you think. What does matter are definitions. By definition, OP is not a Catholic in good standing.

Check out Evil Bible.com. Plenty of criticisms of Jesus and God there.

This comes off as written on either the Ummah Muslim forums or some Christian internet forum. I have now been called a heretic(kaffir, kuffir w/e it is) by not only extreme Muslims on Ummah, but folks on this forum.

Careful when you use the word heretic, your not God. Your views, or mine on the Trinity are not grounded in fact

No offense, you cant prove that the trinity is the most important belief in our religion. I think how God judges us is the most important aspect along with respecting the Ten Commandments which include worship of one god(singular)

Early Christians didn't use Idoltries, and the concept of the Trinity did not come about until 300-400 years after the time of Christ. Yes, this view goes against mainstream modern day Catholicism, but I'm not trying to convert folks to Islam. On the Muslim internet forum, I was oddly enough accused of wanting to convert folks to Christianity, isn't that funny? I consider my self Catholic, I was even at Church for the first time in 2 years this past Christmas.

Cooler, Pope Francis encourages us to reach out to Muslims and respect Islam.