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Originally Posted by tame_deuces
Again, that does not follow. You are just assuming your conclusions. Also, there is no reason to suspect that you know what form omnipotency or omniscience would take.
I'm not assuming anything, I'm drawing conclusions from a set of defined conditions. I'm taking omnipotency or omniscience to mean literally all-powerful and all-knowing, I don't think that's unreasonable. If you have some other definition then use them but be clear with me about what you think they mean.
I've never said that free will can't exist at all, I said that it's an illusion under the conditions of god being omnipotent or omniscient, or that god isn't omnipotent or omniscient. That second option would also resolve the issue of the problem of evil and gratuitous evil, but that's a separate conversation.
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Originally Posted by tame_deuces
In fact the idea that a non-omnipotent and non-omniscient being could reliably recognize or understand what those concepts are is rather absurd. Consider that an ant understanding a space station is not even on the same scale of potential understanding, because for all its unlikelihood we're still on a scale of finite values.
So anyone who is not god, cannot understand god. This viewpoint really ought to cause you to simply shrug your shoulders anytime god comes up, how could you possibly have an opinion on any of it given that you are simply unable to, and incapable of, perceiving god? It's like some kind of 'mysterious ways' argument on steroids. If your intent here was to point out to me that I'm simply not able to understand god and therefore should just stop arguing about him, you could have done that in one sentence a long time ago. Why only bring it up now?
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Originally Posted by tame_deuces
You are correct that you can't know what perfection is, so you can't say that it hasn't been made.
But other than that there are no requirements in omnipotency or omniscience to "create perfection", that's just you making assumptions.
A perfect being, incapable of anything less than perfection, cannot create something less than perfect. And since god created everything, what we have must be perfect. That's valid, but I can see two problem with the first premise, whether or not a perfect being can create something less than perfect, or whether to not god is actually perfect. If he isn't that resolves a lot of problems, so I'd be happy to agree that god isn't perfect, even though I can't possibly understand him.....