I benefit from it by appreciating life more. Becouse i think the chances of afterlife are extremly slim i try to use my life to the fullest and not by spending it on my knees.

So you think that being a Christian limits life? In what ways?

How do you show your appreciation?

How can you live life to its fullest, when you only know or experience 1/2 or less of whats actually available to be experieced?

Life is not only physical but spiritual also, so if all that you have is physical knowlegde and life, then you are living below par in this life. Because there are millions maybe even billions that will tell you that there is a spiritual side to life.

haha.. show me scientific proof that Christians have better lives then any other believer/agnostic/atheists.

are they lucky more often?
do they have more money?
better jobs?
don't get sick as often?
live longer lives?
are happier?
the list goes on...


ok, did you prove that the bible claims truth? no , so before you start quoting me something and making claims as if whatever you are quoting is some proven fact , you need to prove to me that this text tells the truth... And i'm pretty sure you can't do that..

so telling me i'm mistaken is pretty silly..


oh yes... god created us in such by giving us brains so that we could use them.. we have been using them for centuries, advancing our civilizations, none of those advancement are based on faith in invisible friends... are you telling me that god created us in such ways that wants us to use brains and reject foolishness and unsupported beliefs yet in his case he wants us to cover our eyes and dismiss the lack of evidence for his existence and just use faith... and if you don't you will go to hell...

sorry but this makes no sense to me...

If god is all powerful and has ability to end existence of the devil who is causing all this trouble yet he is unwilling to do so , then he is as guilty of it as the devil...

1.I have read your bible( if you claim that this book is all true) and the bible itself shows a lot of terrible actions god has taken or requested to be done in his name.. That god is not just. God who wants to punish someone with eternal tortures is not a just god.. Even us humans don't punish someone for a murder for eternal tortures...
2. I see the world around me.. I don't see any supreme being interventions going on.. Earthquakes, tsunamis, disease, fires, the list goes on... This world does not look like a word where a hand of superbeing who is caring for his creation is protecting them all / or even sometimes ... If god exists, then he has a lot of explaining to do , why did he design such a dangerous planet for us, and our such vulnerable bodies of ours..

maybe that's what you claim, others claim something else...

I am not looking in the right place? can you give me a list of 5 best proofs that god exists please?

It limits time available for life. Becouse as a christian you have to pray and go to curch.

I show my appriciation by careing about ppl that i love and by trying to do to others as i would like for them to do to me.

When i feel the need for spiritual charging i do lsd or mushroms.
And i can tell u that if u did not try that u did not expirience life to the fullest.

I can pray while I do anything else in life, so that is not much of a limitation.

Who says you have to go to church? The bible? Nope! I think you have been lied to....

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

How do you care for others?
How is caring for others show your appreciation for life?

Who are you showing your appreciation to?
Why would you feel you need to show your appreciation to anyone?
Why would that thought even be in your mind?
The desire to be thankful to whom, for what?

are they lucky more often? - Yes
do they have more money? - Yes and No
better jobs? - Yes and No
don't get sick as often? - Yes most often
live longer lives? - Yes most often
are happier? - Yes most definately
the list goes on...

1. i think 3rd commandment(i m in Roman Catholic country) says we have to

2. well you can do it while doing anything else , but imo then u r not committing your self to a prayer or to the thing that u r doing .

3. about appreciation ... i dont think i know exact context of the term ... could u clarify it for me (english is obv ot my 1st languague)

4. i feel good doing "good" things (helping a kid find his mom in the mall, if someone has a flat on the road to help them change a tire .... and stuff like that)

5. i m thankful to forces of nature , that made my life possible.

do u really actually believe that if u r a christian that u will get "lucky" in life more?

why would that be ??

Why does there have to be any "benefits" to atheism? Atheism is not a religion or anything that would grant benefits. It's just a philosophy. Philosophy doesn't owe anyone any benefits. It's just thoughts and beliefs. Atheism is unique in that it entails a lack of belief. Why would you think that would give you any benefit? There's no reason it would, or really could. Any benefits gained "from atheism" would really be from philosophy based on atheism, that isn't actually atheist philosophy, but something else entirely. It would really be existentialist or something else, not atheism.

1. i think 3rd commandment(i m in Roman Catholic country) says we have to

Well no bible that I know of says you have to go to a church, so dont worry, God does not live in temples made with hands....

2. well you can do it while doing anything else , but imo then u r not committing your self to a prayer or to the thing that u r doing .

Well, their is one type of prayer in the bible called perfect prayer, which is praying in tongues, which when done, it by passes the thought processes, meaning you can still carry on and do things that require complete attention and still pray perfectly because the praying is done by the spirit within you, called holy spirit. Its by freewill.

3. about appreciation ... i dont think i know exact context of the term ... could u clarify it for me (english is obv ot my 1st languague)

Okay, just means thankfullness.

4. i feel good doing "good" things (helping a kid find his mom in the mall, if someone has a flat on the road to help them change a tire .... and stuff like that)

Thats being kind and helpful to others for sure. Its not necessarily showing appreciation but its a great thing to do, as long as your wise about who you help on the road.

5. i m thankful to forces of nature , that made my life possible.

Well, the force that made your life possible is God. So, your thanks should go to him.

And since you have revealed that you are Catholic, its good to let you know that God love you even if you do not believe in the stuff that the Catholic church teaches, which is pretty much all traditions of men, with very little truth based on the bible.

Well, for one, I know that there is no such thing as luck, everything happens for a reason, good or bad.

So, to relate to you, I replaced "luck" with "being blessed."

Christians are always way more blessed than non Christians.

Being blessed means that God has done something really cool, miraculous, unexpected for you. It happens all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrBLq...el_video_title

Wow, you've really mastered the whole don't judge others concept. I'm sure your fake god would be so proud!

why does no god automatically mean the only other possibility is nothing?

Maybe when we die we all go to Bora Bora in another dimension and learn how to hula dance with naked girls.

The answer should be obvious: Atheists believe they are facing the facts as best as our intelligence can reveal them. I am an Agnostic because I can't believe that any religion that I've ever come across is anything but a reliance on incredible assertions unsupported by any reliable evidence. I don't dismiss the idea of a God because I don't think very much of human intelligence and suspect that science has missed the mark. To those who don't think so I reply that there comes a time when I think I'm entitled to call BS on science when science has to trot out a multi-verse in order to get around what appears to be fine tuning. But that's another thread.

OTOH, and it's a BIG OTOH, I often find myself very jealous of those who practice a peaceful, tolerant religion because they have a sanctuary, a place of calm, that they can access and that I can't. I'm sure it's a comfort and if the basis for it isn't real who cares? The comfort is real and if this is a Godless, one of an infinite number, universe I see no reason not to have the illusion.

OP, you seem to be stemming this topic from the famous Pascal's wager. [Pascal's wager simply: Belief in God grants you heaven or nothingness- if there is no God, disbelief grants you Hell or nothingness- if there is no God]

The problem with Pascal's wager is that it is dependent on an either/or proposition and does not accurately account for every possibility. It assumes that a Christian/ Biblical interpretation is the only alternative to atheism. Any suitably sophisticated argument along these lines must account for the possibility that perhaps the Muslim faith is correct or the ancient Greek or Roman or any other faith may be correct and leading a virtuous Christian life may not qualify the person for salvation under any other understanding-which may be the correct interpretation of god.

To put it in another way, Pascal's premises would be analogous to stating that if you are driving along a road and another car is bearing directly down on you, you are presented with two options: swerve or continue- an adherent to Pascal's logic would choose to swerve (rationalizing their choice on being active in determining their own fate-choosing to believe in god), this same person would likely believe they are doing the right thing because they assume that by swerving away, they are avoiding collision and death. However, avoiding collision by swerving and collision by continuing are not the only options. It is possible that the person could swerve to his right and the oncoming driver could swerve to his left and collide or swerve in different directions and avoid collision or one could swerve and the other continue, also avoiding collision. Each driver could break and stop short of each other. Both could continue and smash each other to bits. There are many more outcomes than first assumed.

The fallacy of Pascal's Wager is that it does not accurately account for all possible outcomes, which necessarily renders it invalid (I can prove this if need be).

So the response to a theist proposing Pascal's Wager would be: what if you are wrong about the god of Abraham and the true spiritual guide of the world is Zeus, will you achieve Paradise if you spend your life denying Zeus in favor of another god?

You make it sound as if science has one arrow and has already decided to shoot it at the target. Science has many arrows and will continue firing the next as soon as it becomes more accurate than the previous one.

Cite?

Do you have any evidence or is this just more Christian propaganda?

I get no benefits from my atheism.

Here's a believer in the making. May god bring you closer to him.

I feel like atheists are like the Jews , always wanting miraculous signs and still not believing. It's quite clear that not even a miraculous sign would change everyone's mind. Even if god presented himself in some "physical" way you guys still wouldn't believe. First you wouldn't believe it, then once you saw the miracle you wouldn't believe but would immediately go into some kind of research project spending infinite amount of years trying to scientifically explain that what you saw wasn't god but something science can explain. Science is your god unfortunately. And we all know how limited science is.

There are no what ifs in the word of god. What if comes from the enemy, the master of deceit in which you all follow, he deceives you by putting doubt and fear into your hearts. If you know god can not lie, then his word is surely all truth, and in truth there are no what ifs. Of course you don't have to believe those negative thoughts in your head, but atheists tend to feed the evil in their head.

It's like that old adage, if a chief has 2 dogs, one is white that is good and courageous, the other a black dog that is vengeful and angry. Both dogs are fighting to the death, a young man asks him which will win? He responds "The one I feed"

Now which one do the atheists here think they feed. All that is good or all that is evil? It's your choice really. All god can do is make the options available, up to you guys to stand up and receive the most wonderful gift.

HELDERS r invading 2+2. Warn them that god is dead.

The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.

That much is very true even today.

[] Lack of Christian faith = negative life outlook
[x] OP is a sheep, whose perversion of logic is clearly consistent with his outdated beliefs

The difference between Christian faith and atheism is, a Christian has "faith" that good things will happen according to some BS divine plan God has set forth, while an atheist believes that it is his/her own actions that dictate their life outcomes. I.e. why wait for some incompetent patriarch from a work of fiction to solve problems or create opportunities when they can be created on one's own?

Keep in mind that a Christian cannot believe that they shape their own destiny if they are living their life in accordance with "God's will" because they would be actually living according to God's divine plan. In other words, the Clarence Darrow argument, that to believe in God is to deny free will because the two ideas are diametrically opposed to one another.

This is the reason that Christians only have the perception of hope, inspired by their faith, while atheists have true hope driven by their actions.

/thread