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Originally Posted by Jibninjas
This is a misrepresentation of my claims. It is not that I don't understand how you can relegate God to the level of the tooth fairy, it is that you move the goal posts depending on the conversation. Look at the most recent postings about the subject. If you want to claim that your level of belief is the same as that of the tooth fairy then it should be fair for me to say that you are essentially affirming that the universe is inexplicable and that everything around us was produced by natural unguided processes, etc. You cannot when pressed fall back on "well I am not affirming anything". IMO, this is the most used trick that many atheists on this forum employ so they do not ever have to be on the defensive. You do make positive claims about reality when you claim God is as equally probable as the tooth fairy, so be a man and back them up. That is all that I ask.
I'm glad that my last few days here for a while have been spent getting a better understanding of where (some) theists are coming from.
So if I do not believe there is a god, then I must affirm a naturally guided process. I cannot then say, I'm not affirming anything. Fair enough! That actually makes 100% perfect sense to me. But will you allow me to state 'I don't know' when it comes to what exactly that natural process is, or how it is guided? As long as I don't claim it's a god?
We're kinda getting into agnosticism here. I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I do not claim knowledge. For all I know, there IS a god! I certainly don't think it's impossible. Just very, very, improbable. Again, I make no claims even when it comes to god except to say it's improbable given the evidence to date.
Once again, this is wrong. It is not that I don't "understand" it is that I don't agree. [/quote]
Fair enough again. Just so long as you believe me when I say, I am not consciously choosing whether or not believe.
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I know what you think about the subject and how you would like to be characterized, I just think that it is wrong and that you do not have solid ground to back up your claims.
What claims? That believing in god is not my choice?
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Also, you never answered my post from the other thread, "does a YEC choose to believe that the earth is 6,000 years old or is it out of his control"
I would say that if he's educated, then he is willfully choosing to ignore evidence in order to justify his belief. Unfortunately, this is an all too common practice among many religious people. If he's ignorant of science, then I suppose it might not be a choice. He is using what evidence he thinks he has to ascertain his degree of certainty. It's WRONG, but neither is it his choice.
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I am not going to pretend that you represent all atheists (nor would I think you would want me to)
No, I wouldn't.