Who has said the Universe happened by accident?

And life came to existence by itself is rational? - Yes

Do you understand what equivalent for the purposes of legal protections afforded under the first amendment means?

You keep wanting to make a victory dance over legal rulings treating atheism as deserving the same legal protections as religions, and its unclear why. If Atheism truly was a religion, wouldn't it trivialize the very definition of that which you hold dear?

Atheism makes no claims about the origin of the universe, simply that those who claim gods exist don't meet their burden of evidence.

Just as you don't meet your burden of evidence for claiming the universe is fine-tuned. You are like Douglas Adam's puddle, who proudly proclaims the hole in which it lies "fine tuned" to its very existence.

As far as Abiogenesis, it is a scientific model with a good deal of supporting evidence. Organic proteins are found throughout the solar system in numerous asteroids, more complex proteins can be shown to generate from introducing energy in test containers of simpler organics, etc.

You are free to dispute whether evidence for Abiogenesis is compelling enough yet to accept as the best model of the origin of life. But you haven't offered a shred of evidence for your own model of bearded man in the sky makes everything including man, sticks man in garden with mischievous serpent, is surprised by man listening to serpent, punishes every human thereafter for one mans mistake, and then takes human form to sacrifice a weekend as a loophole for rules he created and controls.

________________
"Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” - 1 Samuel 15:2-3

Oh, those evil infants and bad bad donkeys.

lol fine tune ?
Gigantic waste of space .
Took over 4 billions year to have human life on earth .
Gigantic waste of time and travel between planets, solar systems or galaxies to communicate with any other living thing in the universe .
Only the strongest can survive -> evolution.
Space is near the lowest temperature the universe can be before attaining eternal death …

You got a funny definition of « fine tuning ».

Ps: whats the difference between having life comes from nothing and god comes from nothing ?
What makes one more rational then the other ?

Here is a definition of equivalence .
You are just an atheist that believes in 1 god more then an atheist (which is 0 for us)
Both an atheist and you reject all other gods (in the thousands) created before the one u believe in it now …

Sadly u should use the same robust evidences for other religion to be true before rejecting them , like you do for Christianity.
But you dont .
You are just bias for this one for I don’t know what reason .
That is maybe the most important question u should ask yourself .

Do you have a link to the full debate, I’ve only been able to find clips and I’d like to watch everything in context.

And can you list specific points you think Dyer made that Dillahunty couldn’t refute, or that refutes specific Dillahunty positions? I’ll pay those sections extra attention.

DesertCat:

Of course I do. So does everyone with reading comprehension skills. It means what the U.S. Supreme Court said, namely: "Atheism is Religion."

No you don't.. If I was in prison and saw that a bunch of people can hang out with their friends on Sunday instead of being miserable in their locked rooms for an hour, I would pretend to worship the Tooth Fairy to get equal treatment.

Equivalent protection with respect to legal protections afforded under the First Amendment doesn't mean that it classifies Atheism as a religion.

I can explain further if you would like.

Eldrick:

See Post 26 within this thread where yet another U.S. court declared "Atheism is Religion." Below is the weblink that will take you directly there.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...8&postcount=26


Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

https://www.britannica.com/topic/atheism

I wonder what religion means for you .

It’s like I’m a voter , I have a choice between a republican or a democrat .
I end up not voting -> your response is :
Well you voted by not voting even tho I don’t know who it benefited for as a result ….

Alter2Ego:

In the very article you cited - "The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a "religion" for purposes of the First Amendment" - Please note the QUOTE MARKS

Based on what the cited article said, a child's belief (or anyone's) in unicorns could be considered a religion.

Do you believe a belief in Unicorns is a religion?

Alter2Ego,

The Supreme Court also has ruled that a union between two men is a marriage. Do you agree? Does this prove that homosexual marriages are actual marriages? Note: I believe they are and I have no issue with them. I strongly suspect, though, that you would disagree.

The point is that you don’t get to pick and choose. Either the Supreme Court’s rulings prove both that atheism is a religion AND that homosexual unions are real marriages or the rulings prove neither. Which position are you taking?

Plus “Legally equivalent” is not really the same thing as equivalent. For instance a legal guardian is legally equivalent to a parent in all matters concerning decision making on behalf of a minor. The two are obviously not fully equivalent though. If a child is sick and needs a bone marrow transplant, for example, the non-equivalence becomes clear - there is a much better chance that the parent will be a match.

Eldrick:

The court said at line three of the first paragraph of that same transcript, which I bolded it in red: "We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion."


On the first line of the second paragraph, the court also said: "The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a "religion" for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions,"



Alter2Ego


________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

its like saying corporations talks because under the first amendments giving money is a form of free speech.
Does that mean corporation actually speak and are human being ?

In the case you are discussing here, the court has ruled that if inmates are granted certain privileges based on professed belief in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, or some other recognized religion, then an inmate professing to be an atheism and requesting similar privileges based on that profession of atheism cannot be denied his request. That is the sense in which atheism is equivalent to a religion. The court did not say atheism is a religion, merely that atheists must be treated in equivalent manner (within the scope of the ruling) as religious believers.

Even had the court ruled more broadly that atheism is a religion, the court’s scope is limited to matters of law, and even further limited to matters of US law. It is not the final arbiter of all truth. Its ruling that atheism is a religion no more proves atheism is a religion than your assertion that atheism is a religion does. If the court rules that the sky is orange and all squares have six sides, it does not make those statements true. Similarly if the court rules that atheism is a religion, that does not mean it actually is one, only that it must be treated as one under US law.

Alter2Ego:

You are very good at dodging yes/no questions asked to you.

Under the case THAT YOU CITED - a belief in Unicorns would constitute a religion.

Do you agree that a belief in Unicorns is a religion?

And I do believe as someone stated earlier that you are trolling us. You can't really believe that "in this case" and under the protection of the First Amendment means that Atheism is a Religion.

But it warms my heart that you must believe marriage between same sex individuals is truly a marriage because the SCOTUS said so.

Nailed it !
On the cross

I haven't looked at this thread in over a year (I find religious discussions tedious). But I'm not sure what you're getting at here. It seems that you think you have caught me on the definition that I posted.

But just to clarify, even that third definition does not apply to most atheists I know, i.e. we do NOT consider atheism of supreme importance, any more than our non-belief in Santa Clause and fairies. Non of these non-beliefs guide our life.

Religious people get so triggered by atheists.I think it comes from knowing deep down that their belief in a god is not really defensible. The line I love is when a believer tells me that it takes more faith to be an atheist than to believe in god. They'll say (without a shred of irony or self-realization) "I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist." Stunning.

Patently untrue. I've heard many definitions of morality from well known atheists (e.g. Sam Harris). Your statement is just an example of the smug certitude of believers.

"Answer for language"? What does that even mean?


Wow, nice word salad. That first "sentence" (not really a sentence) is...how can I say this nicely...not well thought out. Try to express a cogent thought and perhaps we can discuss it further.

And claiming it is does not make it so.

Is non-belief in unicorns a religious belief? Because that's exactly the same thing. I don't believe in childish myths without evidence.

That's hilarious.

W0X0F:

Who do you expect to believe that? The fact that atheists spend more time on the Religion forum than many theists says it it all.



Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Define religion.

"I don't believe that god story is real" ... is

[ ] A religion

[x] Not a religion.