Thank you for the questions, I will try to provide my thoughts, from my perspective, and perhaps we can learn together.

I believe that the key is that in creating us in His image God chose to grant us the freedom of choice and with that the responsibility of dealing with the consequences of our actions. We all choose to do what we want to do, the concept of original sin covers all in the abstract because the consequences of all our acts resonate throughout our generations but, tossing out the abstract, we all sin individually all our generations will.

When a mother makes a rule telling her sons not to play in the street they are against it, because it seems oppressive and they want to do what they want to do. So they do not love her because of the rule.

If they break the rule and one is killed by a car, the remaining sons reason that she should have locked them in the house to prevent the death. And they do not love her.

But if she locks them in the house they do not love her because she will not let them do what they want to do.

All mother can do is attempt to protect her children and let them choose to do what they will, and let them suffer the consequences of their actions. It is through this process that they can come to understand her love for them and this understanding makes love possible. But some never come to understand or accept responsibility for their actions.

I remember many years ago I got myself in trouble and became angry with my parents and told them it was their fault because they made me. It made my mother cry and her tears taught me about her love. I grew up a little that day. Ten years later I was still a hater of God. Life is a process. I admit I still know next to nothing but I do have faith in God and hope, which a gift and Ithank God for it as I would be lost if I had to work it all out on my own.

I can't convince anyone of God's existance by proof, if God gave us proof, he would in essence take away our free will, and he has choosen not to do that. To find it out, we must apply ourselves to the study of the Word and prayer so that the Spirit of God may show us the truth. It is my responsibility to testify to my belief but you can only be saved by the Spirit. Each of us have the power to choose and with it the issue of consequence.

The passages in this part of Genesis clearly refer to consequences and we would be better served to recognize this as the price we pay for doing things our way rather than viewing them as an arbitrary punishment from God. Imo.

Stephanie Wells aka Stu, you realize using a gimmick account is an ip ban-able offense?

Wrong.

You should read all the stuff about the serpent in Genesis, not just take something out of context.

"The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed"

Your counterpoint is uncompelling.

It isn't my counterpoint, it's actually genesis 3.

a) "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. "
b)"So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life. "
c)" And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."

According to you Satan is a wild animal, he crawls on his belly, he has many generations of offspring, he eats dust and he strikes at heels and repeatedly has his head crushed in by men. That makes absolutely no sense.

dude needs to get laid.

I'm not.

Many theist who are beaten before they start and enter a discussion just to abuse and sidetrack.

This following is how they approach when they know they do not have a leg to stand on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tqYUTjQIc0

Regards
DL

A few points to refute your words.

The free will that God offers is not free will at all. Do it my way or burn forever in hell is a threat, not free will.

Free will God style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=aUtSM2oVy_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=Nv9IvCpiHxA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=H0wSjJAsrAk

If God gave a hoot about the free will that He supposedly gave us, He sure is an Indian giver all over the O T where He tramples all over man’s free will to live as He went about killing us at Sodom and using genocide on us in Noah‘s day.

--------------------------

Born in sin is not scripture.

In fact, Genesis is arguably not our fall but our elevation to gaining our moral sense.

To Adams sin being passed down.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Regards
DL

Yet you do not refute.
That says much.

Was there a serpent?
Was it under Satan's control?
Did the serpent speak on it's own.

These are important questions.

If you care to answer, I will show you why they are key to understanding Genesis and the story of Eden.
Understanding it tells you how to read the Bible.
If you cannot get the beginning right, the rest you will likely get wrong.
My understabding of lt led to my apotheosis or rapprochement to the Godhead.

Regards
DL

It might be that knowledge was not meant for less than 1k yr old kids. Punishment might have been warranted bc it saves man rather than allowing him to self-destruct.

That's the only reason that appears to my mind. Let alone the the full truth of God.

Evidence?

I don't have any confirming evidence to the creation story.

I do question existing interpretations of evidence pertaining to naturalistic origins as well, fwiw. Don't want to hijack the thread w/ that if you don't want to.

It was the only answer which occurred to me, and its just a thought, not the truth necessarily. Only God knows.

It's a metaphor stoopid.

Knowledge and free will = Parity with the creator

Mankind was no longer subject solely to the will of a loving God so mankind, governing mankind is now subject to the will of both man and God, with all the trappings.
Hard labour and difficult deliveries grew as the population grew exponentially.

So better to torture and burn a man forever than to let him self destruct.

Wow. Real good moral position there. Not.

Regards
DL